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TOPIC: Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger?

Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger? 13 Aug 2017 16:47 #1

  • tdcooper99
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I've been following this topic with interest: http://www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/forum/technical-discussion/82836-adding-a-third-house-battery as well as this one for GREAT information: http://www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/forum/vault/29475-xantrex-link-battery-monitoring-system-info-q-s-and-a-s . I've just replaced my single deep-cycle 12V house bank battery with 2 x 6V batteries. On the basis of these 2 threads and the desire to start properly managing my batteries, I've bought the Blueseas Add-a-battery kit with the ACR, 120Amp version, and the Xantrex Link Lite battery monitor.

My first stage in adding these is going to get the new blueseas switch and ACR installed. However, according to this: https://www.bluesea.com/resources/57 it seems that the ACR is best suited for use with a single output charger... Blue Seas recommends keeping the alternator connected to the Start bank side and the charger connected to the house bank side and letting the ACR deliver the charge as appropriate, rather than using a dual-output charger. I have a ChargePro 2610 10A dual output charger.... and I have the option of using a jumper wire to use it as a single output. My question is... when adding the ACR... should I configure my charger for single output... or can I leave it as is, outputting to both start and house banks?

My charger:

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Tyson, Ackerley, Sidney & Gene
Tsawwassen, BC
1996 2858 Ciera Command Bridge
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Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger? 13 Aug 2017 19:20 #2

  • Pcpete
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You might be in the right church but the wrong pew so to speak. For my boats where I've had a separate starting and house system, Personally, I call Blue Seas in Bellingham for clarification. Often instructions are written by people who are a bit too familiar with what they are trying to instruct, then there are the off shore that are clueless about the translation. Assumed basic knowledge is one thing, counterintuitive instructions are another pet peeve of mine.

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Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger? 13 Aug 2017 22:44 #3

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Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger? 13 Aug 2017 23:01 #4

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I am also trying to achieve this upgrade, if you are using the add a Battery kit, you also have to install and go through the battery switch, their connection diagram shows the alternator to Battery connected through the switch, but the AC Charger connected directly to the Battery/Batteries I think that duel output can connect directly to each Battery set, and single output directly to the house set, then the ACR will direct the charge to the start set, either option seems to work fine, but please double check first with Blue Sea Tech Support.

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Last Edit: by Hawk.

Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger? 14 Aug 2017 04:28 #5

  • tdcooper99
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Thanks both. I've now contacted Blue sea support for further clarification.

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Tyson, Ackerley, Sidney & Gene
Tsawwassen, BC
1996 2858 Ciera Command Bridge
Mercruiser 7.4L BRAVO II (GEN. V) GM 454 V-8; Engine Serial 0F603347
"Island Passport"
Home marina: Point Roberts, WA

Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger? 14 Aug 2017 07:05 #6

  • MonteVista
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Your charger is a 10 amp charger. That is not very high. 10A split between two batteries don't amount to much. I would connect the alternator output to the start battery and use only a single output from the charger to connect to the house battery. Connect the ACR between the two batteries. As much as possible make all connections on the posts of the MBSS; that leads to a simple and clean connection.

Enjoy!

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Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger? 14 Aug 2017 11:46 #7

  • 2850Bounty
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Hawk wrote:
I think that duel output can connect directly to each Battery set,

MonteVista wrote:
.................... As much as possible make all connections on the posts of the MBSS; that leads to a simple and clean connection.



If I've made this suggestion once...... I've made it 1,000 times. NO DIRECT Battery Connections! :evil:
Instead, use the rear MBSS terminals!



FWIW and FYI....... when discussing marine electrical (whether here on the forum or with a supply company), make yourself a respectful schematic using comprehensive icons, etc.
This will help prevent unnecessary misinterpretation and/or misunderstanding.


.

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Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger? 14 Aug 2017 13:56 #8

  • tdcooper99
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2850Bounty wrote: Hawk wrote:
I think that duel output can connect directly to each Battery set,

MonteVista wrote:
.................... As much as possible make all connections on the posts of the MBSS; that leads to a simple and clean connection.



If I've made this suggestion once...... I've made it 1,000 times. NO DIRECT Battery Connections! :evil:
Instead, use the rear MBSS terminals!



FWIW and FYI....... when discussing marine electrical (whether here on the forum or with a supply company), make yourself a respectful schematic using comprehensive icons, etc.
This will help prevent unnecessary misinterpretation and/or misunderstanding.


When I swapped out my single 12V for the 2 x 6V, I moved the only 3 direct connections to the battery. 2 were downrigger plugs directly off the house battery and one was the negative for the outdrive hydraulic pump. Got rid of one of the downrigger plugs that doesn't match the rigger I own, moved the other over to the house side of the MBSS. The ground for the pump I moved to the ground stud on the engine block.

Otherwise, as far as I can tell... everything else has been wired correctly to the MBSS, including the charger.

I'll work on a diagram ;)

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Tyson, Ackerley, Sidney & Gene
Tsawwassen, BC
1996 2858 Ciera Command Bridge
Mercruiser 7.4L BRAVO II (GEN. V) GM 454 V-8; Engine Serial 0F603347
"Island Passport"
Home marina: Point Roberts, WA

Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger? 14 Aug 2017 14:53 #9

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2850Bounty wrote: Hawk wrote:
I think that duel output can connect directly to each Battery set,

MonteVista wrote:
.................... As much as possible make all connections on the posts of the MBSS; that leads to a simple and clean connection.




If I've made this suggestion once...... I've made it 1,000 times. NO DIRECT Battery Connections! :evil:
Instead, use the rear MBSS terminals!



FWIW and FYI....... when discussing marine electrical (whether here on the forum or with a supply company), make yourself a respectful schematic using comprehensive icons, etc.
This will help prevent unnecessary misinterpretation and/or misunderstanding.


.

Yes I agree, multi connections on battery terminals is not good practice!, but TBH I wasn't meaning to be terminal specific, just trying to answer the actual question and connecting directly meaning not necessarily via the ACR, that said all the Blue Sea wiring diagrams I have looked at (prime example attached) show multi connections on the battery terminals, (or they are drawn schematically that doesn't indicate either way) so its understandable that most would naturally follow how they draw it, maybe Blue Sea have an issue of some kind with regards to multi connections on their product terminals.
Maybe a better solution would be to use a correctly rated and fully insulated connection bar for the multi connections then take one cable to the Battery terminal and one cable to the MBSS terminal.

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Current Boat: 2016 Bayliner VR6 4.5L 250
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Last Edit: by Hawk.

Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger? 15 Aug 2017 01:06 #10

  • Happy Friday
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"use a correctly rated and fully insulated connection bar for the multi connections then take one cable to the Battery terminal and one cable to the MBSS terminal."

If I'm understanding what it is that you are doing then this is a clean and safe way to do this. Then you can bring in a single connection from your charger to this bar and the ACR will distribute the charging. To my understanding, you can use the posts on the bar for multiple connections (up to four I think)? The "strange" redundancy exists by way of having a smart charger now connected to a "smart" ACR but there are no issues with this arrangement. This was how a marine electrician did it for me. Although I am not an authority on this by any means, when it was completed it immediately made sense and was easy to understand.
Good luck

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Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger? 16 Aug 2017 14:44 #11

  • Grantj
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Tdcooper99,

Follow Blueseas reccomendation. Combine the outputs of your charger and connect to one bank ( house) only. The reason they reccomend against seperate charging outputs to seperate banks, is the ACR ends up connecting the banks together, and now your charger ends up trying to sense and adjust its output to one combined bank, through two seperate connections. Many chargers have seperate outputs - but they are intended to connect and sense individual battery banks.
You can get around this by using the included switch in the Add a Battery kit to manually open the ACR and isolate the two batteries, when charging dockside using the charger -IF you have the discipline to remember to flip the switch before you leave the boat, and set it back to Auto next time you get underway. In that case, you can use the seperate outputs to each battery without issue.
You didn't say what your house bank consists of - but it ought to be something more substantial than one of the original Group 27 batteries that came with your boat. I agree with the previous poster that a 10A charger is pretty borderline. Your charger should be sized according to the capacity of your battery bank - if you're upgrading to a 200-300 Ah battery bank or larger, you're going to want a much more robust charger to recharge that bank. Or, better yet, an inverter- charger:)
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Grant
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Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger? 16 Aug 2017 17:04 #12

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Grantj wrote: Tdcooper99,

Follow Blueseas reccomendation. Combine the outputs of your charger and connect to one bank ( house) only. The reason they reccomend against seperate charging outputs to seperate banks, is the ACR ends up connecting the banks together, and now your charger ends up trying to sense and adjust its output to one combined bank, through two seperate connections. Many chargers have seperate outputs - but they are intended to connect and sense individual battery banks.
You can get around this by using the included switch in the Add a Battery kit to manually open the ACR and isolate the two batteries, when charging dockside using the charger -IF you have the discipline to remember to flip the switch before you leave the boat, and set it back to Auto next time you get underway. In that case, you can use the seperate outputs to each battery without issue.
You didn't say what your house bank consists of - but it ought to be something more substantial than one of the original Group 27 batteries that came with your boat. I agree with the previous poster that a 10A charger is pretty borderline. Your charger should be sized according to the capacity of your battery bank - if you're upgrading to a 200-300 Ah battery bank or larger, you're going to want a much more robust charger to recharge that bank. Or, better yet, an inverter- charger:)


Thanks, I had a reply from Blue Sea tech support yesterday basically telling me the same thing... either using it as a single output, or suggesting, as you also mention, to either use a manual switch to disable the ACR when charging on shore power or automate it by adding in a relay that cuts ground to the ACR (disabling it) when the charger is powered. I started down that route as it seemed fairly simple... but then realised that everyone who has mentioned my charger is right... it's TOO SMALL for my new battery bank. I bought 2 Crown 6v GC batteries... 235 Ah. I realised that the Blue Seas P12 25A charger is a good fit since it has a "Charge Coordination" feature that integrates with their ACRs allowing the outputs to operate completely independently, disables the ACR, and does whats appropriate for each battery bank. I found other, less costly, chargers that did similar things but I figured it was a tidier solution to keep it within the same vendor. The deal-maker was I found the 7521 model for only $359. The newer version (7531) is closer to $500 most places... and I wasn't going to spend that.

So anyway, think my issues are resolved... if I didn't actually NEED a new charger, I probably would have gone the relay route... but this solves the problem in a simpler way.

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Tyson, Ackerley, Sidney & Gene
Tsawwassen, BC
1996 2858 Ciera Command Bridge
Mercruiser 7.4L BRAVO II (GEN. V) GM 454 V-8; Engine Serial 0F603347
"Island Passport"
Home marina: Point Roberts, WA

Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger? 16 Aug 2017 17:29 #13

  • Hyperlite
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You should have just followed in my 3rd battery topic:) Glad I saw this, this is interesting, i could never get the answer for that question, despite asking that a few times in my topic

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1998 Ciera 2855, 7.4L MPI, Harbourfront Toronto, Ontario

Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger? 16 Aug 2017 17:57 #14

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Hyperlite wrote: You should have just followed in my 3rd battery topic:) Glad I saw this, this is interesting, i could never get the answer for that question, despite asking that a few times in my topic


Yeah... I was following your topic, but didn't want to hijack it. Not sure if you saw this anywhere... but this is where Blue Sea pointed me for how to deal with my existing charger if I chose to keep outputs separate. But charging 235 Ah with 5A really wasn't going to cut it. They even give 2 suitable relay options, which I sourced for around $20:

Solving ACR/Multi-Program Multi-Output Charger Interference .

As I said, that would have been a cheaper solution, but I needed a new charger anyway B)

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Tyson, Ackerley, Sidney & Gene
Tsawwassen, BC
1996 2858 Ciera Command Bridge
Mercruiser 7.4L BRAVO II (GEN. V) GM 454 V-8; Engine Serial 0F603347
"Island Passport"
Home marina: Point Roberts, WA

Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger? 16 Aug 2017 18:06 #15

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I figured i will install a relay option for now, however you are correct, i noticed that too, the charger for my 225AH takes a lot longer now.
I think i will keep my charger for this season and then i will see how that goes.

otherwise i love this system, i only wish i would have done that sooner. I go out every night to the beach, watch movies, fridge running, audio goes through the bluetooth, don't have to think about batteries at all

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Using the Add-a-battery kit with ACR with a dual output charger? 21 Aug 2017 15:17 #16

  • Grantj
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You're welcome - the P12 chargers from Blue Seas are an excellent choice, and the unique integration with their ACR makes for a very efficient install. You will have a much better system when you're done. There's a ton of good resource material on their website as well, which you've already figured out, it seems. Good luck.

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Grant
Seattle, WA
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350 MAG MPI, Bravo 3
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