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TOPIC: Block Test

Block Test 21 Apr 2017 11:04 #1

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Learned Scholars, I have a 1991 Bayliner Capri 1850 with the Mercruiser 3.0 I/O.
I have the classic "Cappuccino" oil , and am suspicious of an internal leak.

My question is this, I am removing the head and manifold to check for cracks, is there any advantage to making a 6" x 19" 1/4" plate with a rubber gasket that I can bolt on the block to seal it.
This would replace the cylinder head and completely seal of the block.I can then pressure test the block I believe, if this is feasible, where should I introduce air and to what pressure ?

Thanks in advance,

Andy

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Block Test 21 Apr 2017 12:11 #2

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Moss wrote: Learned Scholars, I have a 1991 Bayliner Capri 1850 with the Mercruiser 3.0 I/O.
I have the classic "Cappuccino" oil , and am suspicious of an internal leak.

My question is this, I am removing the head and manifold to check for cracks, is there any advantage to making a 6" x 19" 1/4" plate with a rubber gasket that I can bolt on the block to seal it.
This would replace the cylinder head and completely seal of the block.I can then pressure test the block I believe, if this is feasible, where should I introduce air and to what pressure ?


Andy, before you remove the cylinder head:

1...... check the exhaust manifold for cracks within the cooling passages.
You may find that the water in the oil is due to a crack. If so, water could be entering a cylinder at low rpm, and could be getting past the piston rings.

2.... perform a cylinder leak-down test.

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Block Test 21 Apr 2017 13:23 #3

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Thanks Bounty, I will do that this weekend, I wanted the head off because I did a pressure test and got 130 psi, 130, psi,130 psi, and then 107 psi on first cyl (nearest Thermostat end).
My initial thought was that on the plate I make I could also machine four tapped ports to put four gauges (one above each cylinder and pressurize the block to see if one was leaking by the rings worse than the others).
I've never really had much luck doing leak-down tests, I think my hearing may be on the way out ! LOL

Andy

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Block Test 21 Apr 2017 13:37 #4

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A cylinder pressure test (aka compression check) and a cylinder leak-down are not the same. The leak-down test involves a special tester and a compressed air supply
Once the cylinder head is removed, the oportunity for a leak-down test is gone.
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Block Test 21 Apr 2017 13:46 #5

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Was there any water in the cylinders when you preformed the compression test ?

We can rule out exhaust manifold if there is no water in the cylinders, leaving blown head gasket or cracked block. Since the compression is present, this would indicate a cracked block.

We can pressure test the engine block by removing the water supply hose from the drive connecting to the thermostat housing.

Disconnect the hose going to the exhaust manifold and plugging on the engine side. Where you disconnected the hose from the drive use a short piece of hose and connect to the thermostat housing and using regulated compressed air after removing the plugs , and dip stick apply the air.. If air flows out spark plugs you have a cracked head or block, if water comes out the dip stick you have a cracked block.

Post back AFTER you preform the test, we will go from there.

DO NOT DISASSEMBLE ANYTHING YET !

I can explain that low number on #1 cylinder, but first the test !

I have had this exact same problem .
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1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

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Block Test 21 Apr 2017 15:31 #6

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Thanks Chief, I will do the tests this weekend.
Bounty, I have a leak-down test kit, but part of the tests require a keen ear.... sadly I don't have that.

Chief, if my issue turns out to be the same as yours ....,.... was it an easy fix or new block ?


Thanks,

Andy

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Block Test 21 Apr 2017 18:49 #7

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First time it happened to me it was the head.

I took off the t- stat housing off and shined a light into the hole, probed the wall opposit with a screw driver low and behold there was a hole into the pushrod hole.

Second time the mani went.

Where generally are you located in the real world ?
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1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

'86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

Block Test 24 Apr 2017 11:37 #8

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Test Results !
Pressurized the block through an adaptor I made through the thermostat hose, using the plate I made to 20 PSI, and smeared soapy water over the dip-stick tube and watched tiny bubbles appear and then burst.
This means the block is leaking, correct ?

That being the case , is there an automotive block I can use instead ? I realize I have to swap out parts, but am fine with that.
The used Mercruisers I have found are around $1500 here (Ontario Canada).

The Engine is a 1991 Mercruiser 3.0 L and is a Bayliner Capri 1850

Thanks again Folks,

Andy

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Block Test 24 Apr 2017 13:46 #9

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Moss wrote: That being the case , is there an automotive block I can use instead ? I realize I have to swap out parts, but am fine with that.
The used Mercruisers I have found are around $1500 here (Ontario Canada).

The Engine is a 1991 Mercruiser 3.0 L and is a Bayliner Capri 1850

Thanks again Folks,

Andy


Andy, I am not certain but I'm thinking that the 3.0L may have been used in the Chevy II cars, and for only a few years.
However, since it also worked well in the Marine environment, GM continued producing the 3.0L for Marine use, and it is still being used today.
So in short........ I doubt that you can find one from an automotive application.

Take a look here.
www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&bi...07.cR4JayKgXNw#spf=1
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Block Test 24 Apr 2017 14:11 #10

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The 3.0 l GM engine used in boats has never ever been used in automotive application.
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Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

'86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

Block Test 24 Apr 2017 14:25 #11

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Thanks guys, it looks like I may be in trouble then !
Anyone got any info on the "Iron Duke" I keep hearing about, is that a replacement for this engine ?

Andy

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Block Test 24 Apr 2017 14:53 #12

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The 3.0 l GM engine used in boats has never ever been used in automotive application.


I was thinking Chevy II, but was not quite sure.

However, the inception of the 3.0L 4 banger was used in the Chevy Chevette beginning as a either a 1.5L or 1.6L (coined the "iron duke").
It later underwent a cylinder diameter change to 4.000".
The 4.000" bore gave it a 3.0L displacement.
From there it was primarily used in industrial applications, and simultaneously it found it's way into the Marine environment.

So...... the answer to finding an actual automotive 3.0L cylinder block is NO!
Industrial or Marine..... yes!


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Block Test 24 Apr 2017 16:20 #13

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Nope GM 3.0 181 CID never been used in auto application!
m.ebay.com/itm/Mercruiser-GM-140HP-181ci...ff15b7%257Ciid%253A1
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Block Test 24 Apr 2017 16:40 #14

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Well Gents, I appreciate all suggestions and help.
I'll have to explore some other options ....(if there are any) .

Andy

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Block Test 24 Apr 2017 16:49 #15

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Find a good 3.0 donor boat,
Michigan motorz long block for $1800,

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Block Test 24 Apr 2017 23:19 #16

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Fresh water used engine.

Some fork lifts and the stramboli ice machine use the 3.0 l.

The 2.5 l a close cousin to the 3.0 l was used in the late 60's early 70's postal trucks used them, pickup trucks, Chevette etc.

I bought a boat and trailer complete for 400 dollars all I wanted was the engine, my 2.5l gave up the ghost. It had the 3.0 l / 140 engine, straight changeout to my 2.5 l.
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Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

'86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !
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Block Test 25 Apr 2017 02:36 #17

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Has the block and or head been confirmed as toast or are we talking contingency plans. The problem may be limited to a bad riser. Or, because of the concern about the one low compression reading, rebuilding is a viable option. Just trying to catch up.

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Block Test 25 Apr 2017 10:53 #18

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Here is the set up I used to check the block.
Once I smeared soapy water over the dip-stick tube bubbles appeared, my stainless fittings were leaking a little as you can see by the bubbles , but air is definitely getting into the oil so I assumed this is where the water is entering too.
I may try and find the leak and see if I can weld or braze it.... but as I have witnessed on other sites that seems to really rile people up ! lol

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Last Edit: by Moss. Reason: trying to add picture

Block Test 25 Apr 2017 13:06 #19

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Moss wrote: ............ I may try and find the leak and see if I can weld or braze it.... but as I have witnessed on other sites that seems to really rile people up ! lol


I won't become riled up....... but I would certainly try to discourage you from doing so!
That would NOT be a proper repair or solution!
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Block Test 25 Apr 2017 14:23 #20

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I'm not going to weld it, I'm looking for a new block....... The dreaded Bubble !!!

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Block Test 25 Apr 2017 20:40 #21

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You think i'm happy you got that problem no way.

Seen this too many times.

Look on Craigs see if there is a good running 3.0l engine around, look in the boat section, maube you pick up a boat.
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Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

'86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !
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