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TOPIC: Volvo Penta DP findings

Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 16, 2017 08:16 PM #1

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Last year with the 280SP my numbers were as fallows.
Getting on plane was about 10sec.
Was getting 30MPH(gps) @ 3550RPM
WOT was 4400RPM @ 40MPH(gps)
Wandered at idle docking and was "dog walking" in reverse backing away from the dock

First run this year with a 290DP with a set of B3 props
Getting on plane takes maybe 5 seconds
27MPH(gps) @ 3550 RPM
WOT 4800 @ 38MPH(gps)
I could have let to rev to maybe 5K? rpm but i backed out of it so im sure i need a different set of props. Maybe B4 or B5? props.
Seemed to not wander as much at idle when docking and backing seemed to be a little straighter with less "dog walking". Steering was pulling pretty good to the left so trim tab needs adjustment.
As a upgrade im kinda so so about it. I can't think of a thing that says OMG you need this at this point but i can tell it needs a little more dialing in and once i have iti all correct opinions might change.
Anyone have a set of props they want to swap :silly:
Pat. Sandpoint Ida
1984 Bayliner Ciera 24.5 Volvo Penta 5.7/290DP
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 16, 2017 09:15 PM #2

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Yea, that'd be a bit discouraging :S being that you had more throttle left and you were already at a max rpm range for your 5.7 It does sound like you need more pitch to the props.
I'm not familiar with VP but out of curiosity:
What pitch is a a B3 set of props?
What diameter are they?
What's the final drive ratio at the prop shaft and did it change from where it was with the 280SP?
Dave
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 16, 2017 10:16 PM #3

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Hey
My original single prop was a 15X19P Single prop lower unit with 1.61:1 GR
I think the B3 would equate to a 15X17P prop or close to it from the numbers i see. Diameter and pitch is unknown as VP does not publish that data that i can find anyway. The gear ratio now is 1.95:1
I did not have more throttle left. It was WOT and starting to level off at 4800rpm but still slowly climbing
Pat. Sandpoint Ida
1984 Bayliner Ciera 24.5 Volvo Penta 5.7/290DP
Last Edit: Apr 16, 2017 10:16 PM by Amadaies.
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 16, 2017 11:10 PM #4

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Be able to reach 4800 RPM, with a bit more throttle left, and hitting 38 mph is good!
If you load the boat more heavily you'll still be within your WOT range!

You may want to try the B-4s, but I doubt that you can pull off the 5s!



.
Rick E. Portland, Oregon
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Twin 270 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
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Last Edit: Apr 16, 2017 11:18 PM by 2850Bounty.
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 16, 2017 11:14 PM #5

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2850Bounty wrote:
Be able to reach 4800 RPM with a bit more left, as near perfect if you can get.
Well if thats true i see no value at all switching to a DP :( $1600 for nothing. + props
Pat. Sandpoint Ida
1984 Bayliner Ciera 24.5 Volvo Penta 5.7/290DP
Last Edit: Apr 16, 2017 11:15 PM by Amadaies.
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 17, 2017 01:52 PM #6

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I am sensing something wrong. Even with the SP, you should be able to hit way more than 40 mph.

I see an engine pic in a bilge in your avatar, and it's not the stock 260. Let's hear about the engine.
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 17, 2017 02:02 PM #7

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Amadaies wrote:
2850Bounty wrote:
Be able to reach 4800 RPM with a bit more left, as near perfect if you can get.
Well if thats true i see no value at all switching to a DP :( $1600 for nothing. + props

Ooops..... I was doing an edit to post #3 while you were posting next.


OK.... don't give up!
I have installed many Duo Prop lower units for people and none have been disappointed with the additional performance.... prior customers, friends, my son and myself included.

Make sure that you did indeed receive a 1.95:1 lower DP unit. (no other ratio will work for your engine and boat)
Make sure that your engine is in full tune...... I.E., fuel delivery, cylinder pressures, correct ignition advance (Progressive and TA), throttle is opening as it should, etc.
Make sure that you have a matched prop set and that they have NOT been trimmed down during a tune-up/repair.
Make sure that your "set pin" is in the center location.
Perhaps try a B-4 set!


This has nothing to do with performance, but be sure to now use GL-5 gear oil.... ( not 30W Engine Oil as required for the s/p drive! )


Rick E. Portland, Oregon
2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
Twin 270 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 17, 2017 02:12 PM #8

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builderdude wrote:
....................
I'm not familiar with VP but out of curiosity:
What pitch is a a B3 set of props?
What diameter are they?
Volvo Penta does not make this known. Each prop (FWD and AFT) are of different diameter and pitch.
The more agressive AFT propeller adds to the thrust produced by the less agressive FWD propeller.



What's the final drive ratio at the prop shaft and did it change from where it was with the 280 s/p?
His previous s/p was an over-all reduction of 1.61:1, whereas his DP over-all reduction is 1.95:1 (or should be).
Both FWD and AFT prop shafts see the same reduction.
Rick E. Portland, Oregon
2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
Twin 270 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 17, 2017 03:44 PM #9

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At this point t I know my gear ratio is correct.
I think the problem is I need a set of B4 props.
That should put me back to at least the performance I had.
The engine is working fine as it should.
It is a stock rebuilt 260 HP 5.7 that I put a 1409 on with a aluminum intake is the only mods to it. Plenty of power and acceleration as it should.
Pat. Sandpoint Ida
1984 Bayliner Ciera 24.5 Volvo Penta 5.7/290DP
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 17, 2017 04:04 PM #10

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Amadaies wrote:
At this point t I know my gear ratio is correct.
I think the problem is I need a set of B4 props.
That should put me back to at least the performance I had.
The engine is working fine as it should.
It is a stock rebuilt 260 HP 5.7 that I put a 1409 on with a aluminum intake is the only mods to it. Plenty of power and acceleration as it should.

I used to pilot a 1986 2450 with a 5.7. My dad ordered the boat new, and I remember that boat wrapped in plastic when it was brand new off the truck.

It was a 45 mph boat with 4 people in half-full tanks in it.

If you're only getting 40 mph out of the boat now, then something is wrong.
Matt Train
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 17, 2017 06:18 PM #11

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I was getting 40 mph with a 15x19 prop @4400 rpm and could have gotten 43/44 if I never backet out of it so even then it was slightly under propped but I felt it was good enough not to mess with it anymore.

With the new DP I'm still seeing the rpm but not as much speed @38. So I'm betting the props are wrong and a set of B4 will make the performance near what it was. And as for engine wot rpm by the book I should be between 4200 and 4400 wot.
Also this was with a normal load. Full fuel 2 adults and 150ish pounds of junk
Pat. Sandpoint Ida
1984 Bayliner Ciera 24.5 Volvo Penta 5.7/290DP
Last Edit: Apr 17, 2017 06:19 PM by Amadaies.
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 17, 2017 06:22 PM #12

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OK. What's a set pin?
Pat. Sandpoint Ida
1984 Bayliner Ciera 24.5 Volvo Penta 5.7/290DP
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 17, 2017 07:45 PM #13

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It's the pin that your reverse latch locks onto that also determines the "trim" of the drive....a.k.a, manual trim:

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Manual trim VPs have three set positions, or holes in the transom shield. Typically the middle pin provides best all around performance.
Matt Train
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 17, 2017 09:03 PM #14

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Ohya mine is in the center hole.
That being called a set pin never even crossed my mind.
Pat. Sandpoint Ida
1984 Bayliner Ciera 24.5 Volvo Penta 5.7/290DP
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 18, 2017 08:13 PM #15

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Just addressing Volvo Penta SP vs DP part of this discussion, my first boat was a Stingray 250CS that came with 4.3L Volvo Penta, SP. After 1 year I upgraded to a DP drive. Like morning and night! Not only would I come on plane much faster my fuel consumption actually improved! I did not notice a big difference in my top speed at WOT (about 39 mph) but fuel consumption improved. Perhaps more noticeable was the boat started handling better in rougher seas.

My 2 cents.

Good luck!
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 19, 2017 12:33 AM #16

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I was not expecting more top speed but i was expecting my performance to be at least the same. It is close but falls short.
My engine rpm should be between 4200 and 4400RPM im getting 4800 and could probably hit 5K if i tried but that would be max for sure.
So the more i think about it the more im sure its wrong props with B3 being to small.
Problem is will B4 or B5's put me in the right RPM range or would J5 do it?
Pat. Sandpoint Ida
1984 Bayliner Ciera 24.5 Volvo Penta 5.7/290DP
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 19, 2017 02:22 PM #17

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Amadaies wrote:
I was not expecting more top speed but i was expecting my performance to be at least the same. It is close but falls short.
My engine rpm should be between 4200 and 4400RPM im getting 4800 and could probably hit 5K if i tried but that would be max for sure.
So the more i think about it the more im sure its wrong props with B3 being to small.
Problem is will B4 or B5's put me in the right RPM range or would J5 do it?

I would suggest that you take your B-3s in and have them checked. It may be that they are not truly B-3s...... in that they may have been tweaked.
Also, give a set of 4s a try.
And again, I highly doubt that you could use 5s.

Also, I will suggest that you look closely at your progressive ignition advance. See what it's doing from low speed up to the Full-In RPM range.
If it's not as per specs, your engine will not perform to it's MAX.


.
Rick E. Portland, Oregon
2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
Twin 270 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 19, 2017 03:36 PM #18

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I don't see this as a engine problem. My engine is performing just as well as last year.
Pat. Sandpoint Ida
1984 Bayliner Ciera 24.5 Volvo Penta 5.7/290DP
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 21, 2017 01:53 PM #19

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Amadaies wrote:
I don't see this as a engine problem. My engine is performing just as well as last year.

Why would you say that? I already showed you the boat was underperforming prior to putting the DP on it.

You should be able to pull 45 mph out of it. 5.0s top out at 40.
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 21, 2017 02:11 PM #20

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Amadaies wrote:
I don't see this as a engine problem. My engine is performing just as well as last year.

Pat, what have you got to lose by checking?
Baring that all else is OK...... ignition advance is all about the proper placement of LPCP.
If your ignition advance is lazy, so will the LPCP be lazy!
A lazy ignition advance may not hurt the engine, but it certainly doesn't help with the correct LPCP of 12 to 14 degrees ATDC.
Rick E. Portland, Oregon
2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
Twin 270 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set
Last Edit: Apr 21, 2017 02:40 PM by 2850Bounty.
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 21, 2017 05:36 PM #21

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Im exceeding the recommended rpm's. What makes you think its a engine problem?
I have plenty of power. Starts fine runs fine throughout the rpm range, Jumps up on plane, I can exceed the recommended rpm's but not getting the speed i had with a SP running a 15X19P Volvo Penta prop.
I have a Delco voyager ignition system installed that was timed to 8deg btdc in timing mode with a Volvo Penta ignition module. It is advancing but i have not checked TA. My total advance with this module should put me at 30deg TA
Last year i could run at 4400rpm at 40MPH(gps) with the 15x19P prop and it would reach that as one would expect after 4400RPM it would SLOWLY climb in rpms but i never let it go past that. I always felt i needed a 15X21P prop but at a couple hundred bucks a prop i was ok with last years setup.

This year im reaching 4400rpm easy and will rev easy past that rpm so to me that more indicates a prop problem. SO i called the prop shop i used to go to that i trust but is 3 hours away and told the owner exactly what the problem im having is.
He agreed that the B3's i tested with were not right and a set of B4's would cure the problem i was describing. Lack of speed and neck snapping acceleration.
So i take the 3hr trip with the B3's as a trade that i bought from EBay as rebuilt. They were rebuilt :S
Turns out the B3's rebuilt props are junk and he did not even want the forward prop as it was so far gone. The set had been run with out a thrust washer also. Looking at both sets side by side you could tell my B3's were junk. Blades were even WAY thin and surprised they did not bend when testing on the water.
He even showed me a set of new B4's comparing them to the rebuilt B4's
SOOO now i have a good set of rebuilt props B4's that i will be testing tomorrow and report that back.
Really hard to get a good edge pic so hope you can see the difference!

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Pat. Sandpoint Ida
1984 Bayliner Ciera 24.5 Volvo Penta 5.7/290DP
Last Edit: Apr 21, 2017 05:43 PM by Amadaies.
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 21, 2017 06:28 PM #22

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Here;s why I think you have an engine problem, and to be clear, the problem is this: It is not producing the horsepower it should be for a 5.7L engine.
Amadaies wrote:
Im exceeding the recommended rpm's. What makes you think its a engine problem?
I have plenty of power. Starts fine runs fine throughout the rpm range, Jumps up on plane, I can exceed the recommended rpm's but not getting the speed i had with a SP running a 15X19P Volvo Penta prop.
I have a Delco voyager ignition system installed that was timed to 8deg btdc in timing mode with a Volvo Penta ignition module. It is advancing but i have not checked TA. My total advance with this module should put me at 30deg TA
Last year i could run at 4400rpm at 40MPH(gps) with the 15x19P prop and it would reach that as one would expect after 4400RPM it would SLOWLY climb in rpms but i never let it go past that. I always felt i needed a 15X21P prop but at a couple hundred bucks a prop i was ok with last years setup.

This year im reaching 4400rpm easy and will rev easy past that rpm so to me that more indicates a prop problem. SO i called the prop shop i used to go to that i trust but is 3 hours away and told the owner exactly what the problem im having is.
He agreed that the B3's i tested with were not right and a set of B4's would cure the problem i was describing. Lack of speed and neck snapping acceleration.
So i take the 3hr trip with the B3's as a trade that i bought from EBay as rebuilt. They were rebuilt :S
Turns out the B3's rebuilt props are junk and he did not even want the forward prop as it was so far gone. The set had been run with out a thrust washer also. Looking at both sets side by side you could tell my B3's were junk. Blades were even WAY thin and surprised they did not bend when testing on the water.
He even showed me a set of new B4's comparing them to the rebuilt B4's
SOOO now i have a good set of rebuilt props B4's that i will be testing tomorrow and report that back.
Really hard to get a good edge pic so hope you can see the difference!

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At 4400 RPM flat out, you should be doing 45, not 40, and 4400 RPM is the maximum WOT RPM for the 5.7L Volvo. A DP won't change that, and neither will a new SP prop.

I know these boats very well. ;)
Matt Train
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 21, 2017 07:32 PM #23

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looking forward to your findings with the new props.
Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 Ciera 2556 Mercruiser 5.7 Bravo II
.030 over-Votec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 21, 2017 08:51 PM #24

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Mat.
It is a direct coupling from the engine to the prop pretty much. The way i see it 4400rpm is the same no matter how much horsepower you have. I could have 8K horsepower and have a rpm of 4400. the boat still goes the same speed with the same 15X19P or B3's
I know i have the right GR in the lower unit. First thing i checked when i got it So pretty much the only variable is the props that can change at this point.
Right now i can over rev my engine and that indicates it needs more load to get the WOT rpm down to where it should be and the only way i know of to do that is more prop.
Please re read post 11
Am i wrong?
Pat. Sandpoint Ida
1984 Bayliner Ciera 24.5 Volvo Penta 5.7/290DP
Last Edit: Apr 21, 2017 10:42 PM by Amadaies.
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Volvo Penta DP findings Apr 21, 2017 08:51 PM #25

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builderdude wrote:
looking forward to your findings with the new props.
ME TO! :)
Pat. Sandpoint Ida
1984 Bayliner Ciera 24.5 Volvo Penta 5.7/290DP
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