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TOPIC: Element - Water in sponsons? Help!

Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 02 May 2016 22:25 #26

  • TigerBoat
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Haha. I was suggesting that you adjust the smart tabs between boating outings (while on land) before heading out in the boat again, just to see what impact the angle adjustment would have.

:)

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains

Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 04 May 2016 22:43 #27

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Oh, right. Yeah, I'm going to do that tomorrow or Friday. Incidentally, some other Element owner that isn't me said that you should really try to not get a fishing lure hooked to the bottom of a smart tab.

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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 13 May 2016 12:37 #28

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Any updates on solutions Element owners are using to address the Water in Sponsons issue???

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains

Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 16 May 2016 15:19 #29

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Got Bayliner's answer today. Take it to the dealer and have them install drain plugs. So I guess that's that.

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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 16 May 2016 15:42 #30

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Kilroy wrote: Got Bayliner's answer today. Take it to the dealer and have them install drain plugs. So I guess that's that.


Can you have then (or you) take pictures of those drain plugs so the rest of us Element owners can see where these plugs are being installed?

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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 16 May 2016 16:04 #31

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Yes, I'll take some when I get it done, but it might be a couple of weeks. Life is really unfair sometimes, so we have to take the boat to Destin next weekend.

I think ideally the plugs would need to go where my smart tabs are now. The only other place I can think to install them would be on the sides facing the keel.
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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 16 May 2016 18:31 #32

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Did they give you any indication as to what type of drain plugs will be installed?

Good luck! I cant wait to see the pics!
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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains

Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 16 May 2016 20:34 #33

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Same type as on the bilge.

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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 02 Jun 2016 12:59 #34

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So, I'm installing my Smart-tabs last night and surprise, surprise, water begins to stream out of the Port-side sponson (similar to Kilroy's pic) once I drilled my holes. No water came out on the Starboard-side; probably less water is trapped in that sponson at the moment. This was not much of a surprise (see title of this thread), so I left room on my transom / sponsons for additional drains like the one already installed on the Element 160.

Background: My boat has been in the water ONE time and we were out in moderately calm water (2 foot chop max, which was brief) during the outing.

What you can take away from this post is that if You have an Element 160, which you have taken out in the water, then You too most likely have water in your Element's sponsons that is unlikely to drain out on its own.

I will be installing additional drains in the near future. Thoughts?

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains

Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 02 Jun 2016 22:07 #35

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Not sure on the element construction compared to my 185 but on my 2012 185 I also had a lot of water when I drilled the holes for smart tabs. What I found was a poor seal of the top section of the boat to the hull. When the dealer removed the rub rail you could see daylight from inside of the engine compartment. The water was leaking into the hull from this area. We sealed the openings and installed drain plugs as well on each side of the transom. No more leak since repaired.

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2012 185 4.3l
Last Edit: by Waking Memories.

Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 02 Jun 2016 22:43 #36

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Waking Memories wrote: Not sure on the element construction compared to my 185 but on my 2012 185 I also had a lot of water when I drilled the holes for smart tabs. What I found was a poor seal of the top section of the boat to the hull. When the dealer removed the rub rail you could see daylight from inside of the engine compartment. The water was leaking into the hull from this area. We sealed the openings and installed drain plugs as well on each side of the transom. No more leak since repaired.


I had read a post of yours earlier where you described this issue. I hope that this is not a problem with the Element as well.

How did you personally find the poor seal? What should I be looking for exactly?

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains
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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 04 Jun 2016 02:18 #37

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TigerBoat wrote:

Waking Memories wrote: Not sure on the element construction compared to my 185 but on my 2012 185 I also had a lot of water when I drilled the holes for smart tabs. What I found was a poor seal of the top section of the boat to the hull. When the dealer removed the rub rail you could see daylight from inside of the engine compartment. The water was leaking into the hull from this area. We sealed the openings and installed drain plugs as well on each side of the transom. No more leak since repaired.


I had read a post of yours earlier where you described this issue. I hope that this is not a problem with the Element as well.

How did you personally find the poor seal? What should I be looking for exactly?


The first tell tale sign was some water stains inside of the engine compartment. I took the boat out and put it in the water and gave it some rpms in reverse so to get water flooding the stern of the boat and when I opened the hatch I could see water dripping in several areas. That sparked the call to my dealer who contacted bayliner. They told the dealer to remove the rub rails and check the seal. When we removed the rub rail there were gaping holes at the corners where no sealant was which was allowing water to intrude and leak down into the sealed areas under the floor and fill up with water.

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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 09 Jun 2016 00:44 #38

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Hey Guys,

This is really scary story. how did u fix it? did bayliner warranty covered that? sounds like a problem with all the elements?

Honestly I believe the drain plugs that bayliner suggest to install doesn't make any sense, that area contain the stringers, in Bayliner element, they are wood, not even fiberglass. so that area must be completely sealed. no water should be there!!!

There is no way a water to be there unless there is a problem in the sealing. if I was in your place, I wouldn't give up easily for the suggested work around from bayliner !.

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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 20 Jun 2016 15:29 #39

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Kilroy wrote: Yes, I'll take some when I get it done, but it might be a couple of weeks. Life is really unfair sometimes, so we have to take the boat to Destin next weekend.

I think ideally the plugs would need to go where my smart tabs are now. The only other place I can think to install them would be on the sides facing the keel.


Kilroy, I did not see any updates regarding your Element's garboard install on the port and starboard sponsons.

I have posted a pic of mine below.

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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 22 Jun 2016 21:12 #40

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Tiger,

Did bayliner pay for the install of the drains under warranty?

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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 24 Jun 2016 18:31 #41

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rockmgg1 wrote: Tiger,

Did bayliner pay for the install of the drains under warranty?


Yep and I really enjoy the added functionality.

Go for a boat ride & then drain out the water. It's a pretty neat concept. B)

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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 24 Jun 2016 19:04 #42

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This is the reply I got from the Bayliner dealer in the area I boat.
They want to drill a hole in my boat to see if there's water first. If they find water, they will install the drains. If no water, they will charge me for drilling and fixing the hole. The problem is they want me to gamble as to whether there is water or not. If I lose, I pay. If I win the lottery, they pay. Since it's an issue created by Bayliner, I feel THEY should take the gamble.

Good Morning Norman
I just got off the phone with Bayliner. They recognize that some of the Elements are having issues with water coming out when a transducer or external unit has been installed on transom of boat.
Warranty will be honored by Bayliner at this time to install drains.
This is a case by case situation, no time line has be set to honor warranty.
For your boat no action will be taken unless evidence of water documented with Bayliner (through Dealer).
If you would like to proceed with this, a test hole can be drilled in transom area..... if water is present then Bayliner would repair hole and install drains. If test hole is drilled and there is no water present then it would be up to you to cover the cost of repairing the hole.

Please let me know if you have any questions.
Jenny



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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 25 Jun 2016 02:21 #43

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oakplank wrote: This is the reply I got from the Bayliner dealer in the area I boat.
They want to drill a hole in my boat to see if there's water first. If they find water, they will install the drains. If no water, they will charge me for drilling and fixing the hole. The problem is they want me to gamble as to whether there is water or not. If I lose, I pay. If I win the lottery, they pay. Since it's an issue created by Bayliner, I feel THEY should take the gamble.

Good Morning Norman
I just got off the phone with Bayliner. They recognize that some of the Elements are having issues with water coming out when a transducer or external unit has been installed on transom of boat.
Warranty will be honored by Bayliner at this time to install drains.
This is a case by case situation, no time line has be set to honor warranty.
For your boat no action will be taken unless evidence of water documented with Bayliner (through Dealer).
If you would like to proceed with this, a test hole can be drilled in transom area..... if water is present then Bayliner would repair hole and install drains. If test hole is drilled and there is no water present then it would be up to you to cover the cost of repairing the hole.

Please let me know if you have any questions.
Jenny



Jenny Keall |Warranty Administrator|P: 705 375 2623|F: 705 375 5822
Get out on the water
www.gordonbay.com
P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail


I would call bayliner directly. Thats so stupid.
Anyways, if I was you and I will end up paying money anyway, I sould install a smart tabs.

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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 25 Jun 2016 12:01 #44

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My trim tabs will be here today, so I'll see if I have this issue. Wondering if they made any design changes to fix this for the 2016's. Where I boat, there's constant traffic, wakes, chop, and we're always getting water everywhere, so if water's going to get in, it's gonna be there. Installing plugs in the sponsons doesn't really address the issue IMO.

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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 25 Jun 2016 15:55 #45

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element385 wrote: My trim tabs will be here today, so I'll see if I have this issue. Wondering if they made any design changes to fix this for the 2016's. Where I boat, there's constant traffic, wakes, chop, and we're always getting water everywhere, so if water's going to get in, it's gonna be there. Installing plugs in the sponsons doesn't really address the issue IMO.


You are absolutely correct. Installing the drain plugs only allows you to remove the water, it doesn't stop the water from entering an area that is supposed to be water tight.
I am so pissed at the reply I got from Bayliner, through my local Element dealer, that I will contact Bayliner directly and give them no other choice than to install the plugs and repair the source of the water entering at their expense (water found or not) or face legal action. They, Bayliner, created this issue and it should not result as an expense out of my pocket.

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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 27 Jun 2016 17:34 #46

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element385 wrote: Wondering if they made any design changes to fix this for the 2016's.


No need to wonder.

Mine is a 2016. See my post(s) above. :)

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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 27 Jun 2016 17:39 #47

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oakplank wrote:
I will contact Bayliner directly and give them no other choice than to install the plugs and repair the source of the water entering at their expense.


Oak,

Which area / source of the water entering are you having them repair?

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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 28 Jun 2016 18:14 #48

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TigerBoat wrote:

oakplank wrote:
I will contact Bayliner directly and give them no other choice than to install the plugs and repair the source of the water entering at their expense.


Oak,

Which area / source of the water entering are you having them repair?


I'm not sure if I have water or not. I'm waiting to get back home to contact Bayliner directly.
My concern is that I store my boat in minus 40* Celsius during the winter months. If there is water, that water will freeze then expand which will then create invisible hairline cracks that will eventually open and permanently damage the hull. Also, if water keeps entering without leaving, at what point does this become a concern (once the hull is full?)
I don't believe it's up to me to pay to see if there's water in there. Bayliner should be responsible to find out if there is water in there or not. If they discover water, they should do two things,
1) install the drains to allow the water to escape
2) find and fix the area that allows the water to enter in an otherwise water tight area.

I'm I asking to much from Bayliner? I think not.

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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 28 Jun 2016 18:55 #49

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oakplank wrote:

TigerBoat wrote:

oakplank wrote:
I will contact Bayliner directly and give them no other choice than to install the plugs and repair the source of the water entering at their expense.


Oak,

Which area / source of the water entering are you having them repair?


I'm not sure if I have water or not. I'm waiting to get back home to contact Bayliner directly.
My concern is that I store my boat in minus 40* Celsius during the winter months. If there is water, that water will freeze then expand which will then create invisible hairline cracks that will eventually open and permanently damage the hull. Also, if water keeps entering without leaving, at what point does this become a concern (once the hull is full?)
I don't believe it's up to me to pay to see if there's water in there. Bayliner should be responsible to find out if there is water in there or not. If they discover water, they should do two things,
1) install the drains to allow the water to escape
2) find and fix the area that allows the water to enter in an otherwise water tight area.

I'm I asking to much from Bayliner? I think not.


Keep us posted if you can. Good luck.

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Element - Water in sponsons? Help! 01 Jul 2016 21:09 #50

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oakplank wrote:

element385 wrote: My trim tabs will be here today, so I'll see if I have this issue. Wondering if they made any design changes to fix this for the 2016's. Where I boat, there's constant traffic, wakes, chop, and we're always getting water everywhere, so if water's going to get in, it's gonna be there. Installing plugs in the sponsons doesn't really address the issue IMO.

You are absolutely correct. Installing the drain plugs only allows you to remove the water, it doesn't stop the water from entering an area that is supposed to be water tight.
I am so pissed at the reply I got from Bayliner, through my local Element dealer, that I will contact Bayliner directly and give them no other choice than to install the plugs and repair the source of the water entering at their expense (water found or not) or face legal action. They, Bayliner, created this issue and it should not result as an expense out of my pocket.


Begin Rant:

I just got done drilling 8 holes in the transom for my tabs. Water came out of all 8. I also noted a very shoddy seal-line where the deck was installed onto the hull. I'm still in orbit as I type this. Look, I like my boat. I understand, Bayliner makes great boats, and some not so great boats, just like every other manufacturer. But to have a design flaw like this is completely unacceptable. Now I have to ask as well, what good are installing drain plugs in the sponsons? What if the boat sits in a slip all season? Is it supposed to come out every 2 weeks to be drained? That's ridiculous. OK, so drain plugs get installed. That doesn't solve the issue of water laying in there. I don't care what Bayliner says, or what anyone else says - water laying where it shouldn't be, is a problem, plain and simple. And even IF Balyiner comes up with a repair, you KNOW it's not going to be good enough. They're like any other company, and will only effect a warranty repair to the extent that it's as least expensive as possible. And as far as the dealer goes, they're only going to do what Bayliner tells them to do, and nothing more. The guy fixing it could see a 3 foot hole in the hull, and if Bayliner says don't fix it, he ain't touching it. I've built and repaired my share of boats over the last 40 years. Once the drain plugs are installed, I'll have the thing so water tight that you could sink it and it won't get wet. Very unhappy.

End Rant

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