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TOPIC: Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind

Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 20, 2017 07:49 PM #1

  • simbad
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well I hope this is not awkward as a couple of the boats I am going to tee up are members from here.

As some of you know I have had a 3587 for a few years now and it might be time to think about a bigger boat. and naturally the 4788 comes up as bang for buck.

I am interested in any input on the following....

1) is there any real alternative to this boat for someone looking for bigger, good use of space, pilot house.i don't see it but interested in any suggestions
2) My 3587 has been pretty bulletproof, could not imagine a boat that had lower cost to run and own- should I expect a lot higher ownership cost with the 4788
3) I have my eye on a couple of boats be interested in input on my thinking....

Finn Seeker- for sale in Kirkland for 200k it's a 1998
it had no canvas up top, I think this is nice for the winter months but I wonder if I need it when it has a pilot house. it has no diesel heat- I think that's a big deal for convenience- does electric heat and having to run genset to power it become a pain, would anyone run their genset all night if on the hook? and finally no thrusters. my boat doesn't either but I think it would be a realnice to have and high cost after purchase

Our Song- for sale in BC 1997 for $220k
So older, more money but has thrusters both ends, diesel heat and canvas back and up top. is this worth the extra dolars- I also get the feeling it's a really well looked after boat.

and then the anomaly- I found a 490 meridian 2007 in Portland
from pics it's basically the same boat with nicer wooden treatments inside and of course a lot newer. it has the QSB motors. not sure what the difference is there but the ad calls it out as being a big advantage only 500 hours.
but it's $350k so does the price hike justify the difference, over the years I likely lose more on the 2007 than on the older boats? be interested in rationale for going for the newer boat other than maybe it's just a lot newer.


so lots of questions but be open to anyone's thoughts in general as I think about this move.

and of course if anyone is interested in an extended hull 3587 with extra fuel tanks and genset In the extension- let me know :-)
Bayliner 3587 | Extended Hull
"Half the world away"
Seattle, WA Moored in Fisherman Terminal.
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 20, 2017 08:32 PM #2

  • Machog
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In the interests of full disclosure I have a 4087! We were in a position to move up a couple of years ago and looked at 4788's and a few Meridian 49's. In the end we stuck with the 4087. We didn't like the 'grandkids' room next to our state room. When we have guests its typically just another couple or family with grand kids. Walk arounds are about the same as the 4087, no wider. Also the guest state room was dark and appeared small compared with the V birth in ours. I go solo for 2-3 weeks out of our 3-4 month cruising season and handling the 87 solo is easy. Can't comment on an 88, but assume its not as easy solo.

What be did like on 88/49s was the great salon, the space in the engine room, size of the galley, great pilot house etc-there's a lot to like. But, its a lot of money not only to buy but to run. More fuel, more expensive maintenance costs, higher moorage fees at my dock and when cruising. Less choice when out cruising, further north you go less choice of 50'+ docks.

We also looked at Ocean A's, California's and several other brands. None had the space or value of Bayliner, 87 88.

In the end we put a bit of cash into the 4087, new carpet, new flybridge and salon cushions etc etc. Wasted the money we saved on fuel and cocktails;-)

There are several 88's at Banabelt boats in Anacortes and a couple of 3587's just listed.

Good luck with your search.
Machog
1996 4087 Lazy Days
2007 Walker Bay Genesis Lazy Mac
2011 Porsche Cayman
2010 Lexus IS 250C
2008 Honda Ridgeline
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 20, 2017 11:13 PM #3

  • point2
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Hi.
I thought I would give you my opinion as an owner of a 4788. I see you are in Seattle which is as you know the sister city to Vancouver as part of Cascadia.
I think it is the best boat value for the money because it was designed in the Pacific North West and we all know the weather here.
The staterooms are a little small, but as you pointed out the salon is fantastic. You have to go a lot bigger to get that salon space.
A lot of the boats have the 6BTA Cummins which is a very solid engine. The QSB is really the electronic version of that. Yes, there is more to it, but keeping it simple.
The 490 is newer, but basically the same. Newer, is better, but it's all about budget.
Anyway, that's my thoughts. I have been happy with it.
Regards, and good luck.
Stephan
Stephan
"Mahaiya" 4788
Vancouver, BC
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 20, 2017 11:13 PM #4

  • brad4550
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One thing while looking at boats in Canada don't forget the exchange rate right now one dollar US equals C$1.34.
If you really want to know all the ins and outs of the 45 or 47 you should call Dan Byrd at Fairhaven yacht sales in LaConner his phone number is 509-929-3535.you'll not find a better yacht broker then Dan.
Good luck in your new adventures Brad
Brad & Sharon
Lady Jake
1985 4550 EH 700TI /Twin Disc 502
LaConner,Wa. (summer)
2003 Scout CC 24' W/225 Yamaha
kailua Kona,Hi (Winter)
Last Edit: Apr 21, 2017 06:14 PM by brad4550. Reason: Spelling
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 20, 2017 11:37 PM #5

  • robster_in_edmonds
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I walked through Finn Seeker with a friend who is looking for a 4788. Beautiful boat and well cared for. Newer electronics. All it needs is diesel heat. Rendova dinghy with new 40 hp Yamaha. If I didn't already have one that's the boat I'd buy.
Rob Meldrum
Commodore, Edmonds Yacht Club (2014-2015)
"Miss Maui" * 1997 Bayliner 4788 * Cummins 330s
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 21, 2017 04:29 AM #6

  • simbad
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Thanks for the replies. I think I have written off the 490. Love it but I don't see the upside on the extra spend. Ultimately the same boat.

Rob. The seller did mention You had been through the boat. I agree it was in very nice shape but lack of canvas thrusters and diesel heat did put me off.

Would anyone run their gen set all night to keep heat in he colder months. I always hit mine down before going to bed and leave the diesel heat on medium all night. I think electric heat is a bit of a pain. I think I'll also miss my gas cooker on the 3587!
Bayliner 3587 | Extended Hull
"Half the world away"
Seattle, WA Moored in Fisherman Terminal.
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 21, 2017 12:10 PM #7

  • smitty477
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"But, its a lot of money not only to buy but to run. More fuel, more expensive maintenance costs"

I have not owned a 4087 - what is the fuel burn on the 4087 at various speeds and rpm?
Based upon research and the posts on the BOC the fuel burn of the 4087 will be near the same or higher then the 4788.
If both boats have similar engines and gear why would the maintenance costs be higher? Hull painting maybe?

Sinbad - I do not know if you have sonnet anytime on a 4788 or maybe even better cruised on one but you cannot go wrong with these boats.
They have a great combination of benefits including but not limited to - very easy side and stern access for single handling, cruising with aircon or heat on when conditions warrant, good tankage for fuel water and waste, really quiet while underway, plenty of room for all, ability to get on and off the boat at differing levels (variable dock heights) , ability to carry a jet ski or larger RIB, plenty of covered and sun areas when in port.
Somewhere around my ho9use I have a list of 'other' boats that might fit the list we had but most of them did not come close in amenities or in price - most of them were limited production so the ability to gain info and help with the boats were limited. All of them used more fuel per mile than the 4788 at anything above hull speeds. The list was about 20 long but off hand there was these : 52 Choy lee efficient, 48 Chris craft , Bluewater (not the low freeboard one), Kady Krogen (only made one model that paned at maybe 15 copies), Nordic, Angel, and many others I might be able to look up if its important for you.

Good luck and hope this helps
Northport NY
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 21, 2017 02:47 PM #8

  • Machog
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Smitty477. Haul out, bottom paint, wax & polish, moorage all by the foot was what I had in mind. I've kept track of my fuel burn over past 7-8 seasons and its averaged out at 5.2gph, for nearly 1000 hours. That's running mostly around 1100-1200rpm 8-9knots. Have done some 'fast' runs from Anacortes to my home base on Lake Washington, 2200rpm-2400rpm. Have no idea how this compares to a 4788, maybe similar?

Machog
1996 4087 Lazy Days
2007 Walker Bay Genesis Lazy Mac
2011 Porsche Cayman
2010 Lexus IS 250C
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 21, 2017 03:13 PM #9

  • ksanders
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We have owned our 4788 since 2011.

In my opinion in the 50' size range the 4788 represents the best value on the market in terms of comfort, style, price, and amenities.
We love the third stateroom. nobody has ever slept there, but it makes a great storage place for bulky items.

When looking at boats as you know, everything is a trade off.

In my opinion thrusters are not something I would put a premium on.
Yes, I know allot of people like their thrusters, I get that. My thought is that the need for thrusters diminishes as you gain experience docking the boat.
When you first buy the boat you will have a learning curve getting it into a slip in challenging conditions. As you gain helm time you learn how to handle the boat and docking gets easier.
Now for us docking is easy peasy.

Diesel heat is something you will use quite a bit. Maybe not in the middle of summer, but I guarantee that in the PACNW diesel heat will be something you treasure.
If the boat you are considering does not have diesel heat figure on 14-16K to get it installed.

People tend to underestimate the cost of an electronics suite for the 4788. The helm area on a 4788 is as you know huge. A really nice electronics suite will cost from $10K and up from there. The sky is the limit. A 4788 with OEM electronics is in need of an upgrade by now. Boats with upgraded, but several years old electronics are not bad though. Unlike your iphone boat electronics have a long lifecycle.

Canvass is expensive. It is also something that does not last forever. I would expect that any 4788 out there would be on its second set of canvass by now. When evaluating boats I'd be sure to value the canvass accurately in its lifecycle since it is not a forever thing.
Do you need it...no. With an open flying bridge you can enjoy the sunshine better without canvass. Remember the pilothouse is where you drive the 4788 from.
In the rain the flying bridge becomes unusable without canvass though. Something to think about. Canvass makes the flying bridge into a huge dry space.

If i were out 4788 shopping today I'd focus on examples that have the accessories I cherish the most, and the boat that is overall best maintained.

Good hunting...The market for this model is tight.
KEVIN SANDERS
4788 LISAS WAY
SEWARD, ALASKA
www.mvlisasway.com
Last Edit: Apr 21, 2017 04:49 PM by ksanders.
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 21, 2017 04:15 PM #10

  • smitty477
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"Smitty477. Haul out, bottom paint, wax & polish, moorage all by the foot was what I had in mind. I've kept track of my fuel burn over past 7-8 seasons and its averaged out at 5.2gph, for nearly 1000 hours. That's running mostly around 1100-1200rpm 8-9knots. Have done some 'fast' runs from Anacortes to my home base on Lake Washington, 2200rpm-2400rpm. Have no idea how this compares to a 4788, maybe similar?"

Hello Machog

"Haul out, bottom paint, wax & polish"
Haul out costs us about $125 more for the 45's and 47 then out past 38 Bayliner.
Haul out and winter storage costs us about $250 more for our 45/47 than our 38.
Bottom paint is about one gallon more per two coats of ablative - lasts about 3 seasons for us in the NE.
Wax and polish we cannot say as we do that and never tracked the materials costs.
Moorage is the same for us except when visiting ports where the difference is 9 feet times their per foot costs.
We have always used the same 900# mooring over the past 30 years and maybe 8 boats.
Estimated and 'rounded' (to make it easy to remember) fuel burns for the 47 over 10 + seasons (1,000 hrs and 6,000+ nmiles) are like these....
4 nmpg - 6 knots (actually 3.5-4) - 2 gph
2 nmpg - 8 knots - 4 gph
1 nmpg - 10 knots - 10 gph
0.95 nmpg - 15-16 knots - 17 gph

GPH with no speeds - I do not normally track as that includes idling, leaving harbor, maneuvering low cruise and fast cruise and all speeds in between and has no real tracking value for us. I could look it up but we travel more than 80% of the distances above 15 knots as a general rule.
I believe there were a number of BOC members who have posted on the nmpg and gallons per hour per speed with 4087's.
Northport NY
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 21, 2017 06:05 PM #11

  • brad4550
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No one has answered you question on running a Generaton all night,. My short answer NO !!....
1) if something goes wrong with it you may not get to in time,this could include Machine / Co problems.
2) if anchored in a nice quite bay...would you like to hear someone's Generator running all night... I think not.
Just my 2 cents worth ,don't shot the messenger. Good luck Brad
Brad & Sharon
Lady Jake
1985 4550 EH 700TI /Twin Disc 502
LaConner,Wa. (summer)
2003 Scout CC 24' W/225 Yamaha
kailua Kona,Hi (Winter)
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 21, 2017 07:58 PM #12

  • simbad
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Brad, I though the same, that's why I think I have to have diesel heat- its a life saver on my current boat.

I am pretty sure the 4788 is the boat for me. I really want to get up to see that want in Victoria i mentioned above. and then lets see.
Bayliner 3587 | Extended Hull
"Half the world away"
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 21, 2017 11:32 PM #13

  • NeilW
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I would go for one with diesel heat AND at least a bow thruster. Some say you don't need them and they are right, but a thruster get you out of some tight places and make handling the boat with just two people easy.

I can drive and dock a boat as good if not better than most, but I sure love my bow and stern thruster along with the Yacht Controller my boat came with :)
www.boatyardgm.com
www.pacificyachtimports.net
2002 Carver Voyager 57
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3988 250 Hinos
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 22, 2017 02:04 AM #14

  • weiss
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Our Song- for sale in BC 1997 for $220k
So older, more money but has thrusters both ends, diesel heat and canvas back and up top. is this worth the extra dolars- I also get the feeling it's a really well looked after boat.

Just FYI, , Our Song is now sold.....by me :)

Cheers, Gary
Afterglow
4788
Sidney BC
ArbutusCoastYachts.com
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 22, 2017 05:12 AM #15

  • stargazerwa
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My two cents on equipping a 4788 for the Salish Sea.

Diesel heat makes it a year around boat, we have been boating all this winter in temperatures down to the 30's. Note that a diesel furnace will provide more heat than electric running off of a single 30 amp service.

A Bimini is nice, but IMOP a flybridge enclosure is not needed. We have chartered a lot of boats and have only found two uses for FB enclosures. 1) for running in cool/wet weather and 2) to provide an additional area for kids and young adults to sleep. The pilot house is where we run the boat most of the time unless we want to be out in the sun. Lots of places to lets the younger crowd crash for the night in a sleeping bag, Salon, FB, Settee.

Bow thruster, nice to have but not necessary. We have one and use it about 10% of the time when docking. My experience on several boats is the electric bow thrusters are helpful but aren't really enough in a big blow.

Stern thruster, the rudders on our 4788 are so effective at idle that I don't see the need.

Docking the 4788 isn't hard, but it is different then the 4087 which I have docked ~40 times. The FB helm isn't centered like the 4087, it's offset to the Port which isn't as convenient for a Starboard tie which is easier for power, guest and launching the dinghy. The 4788 doesn't pivot as fast using the engines, sometimes additional throttle is needed but it doesn't seem to get blown around when docking as much as the 4087.

They are great boats for the price with comfortable accommodations for the skipper, guest are guest!
Partner in a 1999 4788

Seattle, WA
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 23, 2017 02:54 AM #16

  • Michellekw
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The 4788s have more storage than the 490s. Great boats. We love ours and are only parting with it because another boat fell into our laps at the right time and we can't pass it up. Good luck with your search!
"Plum Lucky" 2001 4788
Ladysmith, BC
Michelle
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 24, 2017 12:28 AM #17

  • simbad
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Oh my god.
Looked at a bayliner 57 on Saturday while in Gig Harbor. Kind of fell in love. Might be too much boat for what I need and they are asking $350. But man it's gorgeous inside !
Bayliner 3587 | Extended Hull
"Half the world away"
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 24, 2017 03:50 AM #18

  • simbad
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Michelle, did you sell yours? if not can you send a link?
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 25, 2017 02:36 AM #19

  • Michellekw
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simbad wrote:
Michelle, did you sell yours? if not can you send a link?

We have an accepted offer and we are just waiting for the subjects to be removed.

I wish you all the best with your search. :)
"Plum Lucky" 2001 4788
Ladysmith, BC
Michelle
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 25, 2017 02:55 AM #20

  • SprinterX
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Michellekw wrote:
simbad wrote:
Michelle, did you sell yours? if not can you send a link?

We have an accepted offer and we are just waiting for the subjects to be removed.

I wish you all the best with your search. :)

Glad everything is working out.

Looking forward to hearing about the new boat.
Sea Venture
2000 3055, 5.7/B2, 18x23" props
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MMSI 316029971

Kirk :)
Drinks well with others. ;)
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 25, 2017 05:40 AM #21

  • simbad
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Had a look at this one tonight...

seattle.craigslist.org/skc/bod/6077126220.html
$220k for a 2002. the boat was spotless, really well detailed. has thrusters, D Heat, canvas up top. but is missing a dink and any electronics to speak of aside from original radar.
I then spoke to another broker who told me he thought this was a repo. he wasn't dissing the boat just calling it out. apparently that dealer does a great job of cleaning boats like that up.
So my concern with buying a repo is that it likely has no history and if it was a repo'd boat and a boat that never had an electronics package was it neglected before and the amazong detail is covering all that up..

what are your thoughts, personally i'd love to buy a boat from the owner, you can tell a lot from dealing direct. should I stay away from a repo?

and as far as GPS goes. how much do we think I am looking at, I know electronics can get crazy expensive, but I think all I really need is a good GPS unit with a decent sized screen, on my current boat that's all I use it for, don't need all the bells and whistles I think?
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 25, 2017 11:28 PM #22

  • Woodsea
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The boat looks clean and pretty stock. That's not a bad thing. It looks like the engines are smoking a bit at idle. Probably no big deal. Add up what it will cost you to update the electronics. 10k will get you a nice basic system. Add a used nice dink for 10k. Add anything else that is obviously missing. Makes your offer based on above info and subject to full mechanical and hull survey. If the survey turns up items that were unknown get estimates for repairs and negotiate that from the agreed upon price. If a bank owns it they want it off their books. I personally would not have a problem with the right repo boat in the right condition. This could be a good one. Good luck!
2000 4788 w Cummins 370's, underhulls, swim step hull extension
12' Rendova center console with 40HP Yamaha
MV Kia Orana
Currently Alameda CA
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 26, 2017 12:12 AM #23

  • Average Joe
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I purchased 490 from that dealer a bit over a year ago. It too was a repo. Clint does a nice job cleaning them up and repairing minor issues. He had no problem with me getting a general and mechanical survey, or hauling it to inspect the bottom. Bottom line is I bought the boat for a fair price and have had no surprises. I wouldn't let the fact it's a repo deter me but just do a good job understanding the condition of the boat - which is what you should do with any boat.
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 26, 2017 03:43 PM #24

  • GMS
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I wonder if this is the Repo that was recently listed on Yachtworld for $149k (but likely sold for a bit more)? That boat was also a 2002 I believe - not necessarily a good or bad thing, just might give you an idea what this broker/dealer has in the boat.

BTW, thanks for posting about this boat, I was wondering about it myself ;)
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Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind Apr 27, 2017 05:15 PM #25

  • simbad
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GMS- it may well be the same boat, the dealer seems like a straight guy and have heard good things about him. I read thr thread on that repo and there were suggestions of bent props and engine issues. I took the boat for a sea trial yesterday. the dealer told me there were no prop shaft issues when he got it and the boat ran really well.
I just need to decide between that or the much more expensive 5788 I have seen. Big decision ! going to start a new thread on that 5788.
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"Half the world away"
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