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TOPIC: taking delivery of a new 2016 element xl asked bayliner about sponsons

taking delivery of a new 2016 element xl asked bayliner about sponsons Apr 19, 2017 05:14 AM #1

  • atcfan
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Hi I recently put down a deposit on a new 2016 element xl with the 115. Just my luck when i get home i find on this forum issues with water getting in the sponsons portion of the hull. I see that Bayliner was offering an attempted fix with added drain plugs in the transom. I figured before i take delivery of my 1st brand new boat i would contact Bayliner via email about this known issue and see if they would give the dealer approval to do this fix with my boat before i take delivery so i don't have problems later in life.so i go on the Bayliner website and submit an inquiry about this issue along with the vin# of the boat on my purchase offer. well about 2 hours later i get a call from my dealer saying he just got off the phone with a trusted Bayliner rep that he has known for quite sometime and has assured him that this sponson issue has been resolved and that i need not worry. I explained to the dealer that i didn't mean to step on any toes but was just trying to prevent any transom rot and saturated flotation foam issues years down the road. the dealer said need not worry and that they were instructed on what to inspect when they prep the boat when i pick it up.Now i never got a call or email response from Bayliner about this inquiry at all which kinda disappoints me a little. I just wanted to see what you all thought of this.
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taking delivery of a new 2016 element xl asked bayliner about sponsons Apr 19, 2017 06:07 AM #2

  • canoel
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Welcome to the BOC!
I am sure others will chime in that have first hand knowledge of the Element.
Joel
1987 3818 Hino 175
"Knotty Girl"
Prince Rupert B.C.
Last Edit: Apr 19, 2017 06:07 AM by canoel.
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taking delivery of a new 2016 element xl asked bayliner about sponsons Apr 19, 2017 01:29 PM #3

  • Download_Complete
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My personal take is trust, but verify.

I would ask to have the drains installed. The way the hull bottom is designed, there is no way for the sponsons to drain into the bilge IF they do get wet. With the drains, at least you have a way of evac'ing the water.

We're not able to confirm right now WHAT Bayliner is doing at the factory level to correct this issue. There are rumors that they found and solved it, and there are rumors that they have not.

In any event, I would chalk this up as something to watch but not necessarily worry about.
Matt Train
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Chicagoland, IL
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taking delivery of a new 2016 element xl asked bayliner about sponsons Apr 19, 2017 02:30 PM #4

  • oakplank
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I'm surprised that Bayliner say they found and fixed the issue. Yet, they won't tell us owners of original (pre-fix) Elements what the issue was and how can our Elements be fixed. The installation of the plugs only allows us to remove the water that has entered the area where water is not supposed to be in, in the first place. The plugs DON'T FIX the problem.
If they have a fixed it, they should tell you what it is that they fixed. Until then, don't believe them and insist they install the additional sponsons plugs.
If by any chance they do tell you what the problem was and how they fixed it, please post it here on BOC. You will be the hero of many, many Element owners who have failed getting Bayliner to tells us anything on this subject.
It's too bad that Bayliner will not address this in an honest way. The Element is a great boat and we all love ours. However, I'm sure there are many "would be" buyers who are going elsewhere to purchase their boat, as they should because of the lack of disclosure by Bayliner.
Parry Sound, Ontario Canada
2014 Bayliner Element with Mercury 60 HP EFI Big Foot OB
12 foot aluminum fishing boat with 5 HP Mercury OB
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taking delivery of a new 2016 element xl asked bayliner about sponsons Apr 19, 2017 02:31 PM #5

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Ok i guess my plan is to run it for a month and then pull it out of the water and check for water. Is there a way to check for water without drilling holes? I don't plan on installing smart tabs anytime soon and when i finally install a fish finder and transducer it will be epoxied on. I figure between running the boat and leaving it parked at the dock that will be a good test to see if Bayliner has fixed the issue.
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taking delivery of a new 2016 element xl asked bayliner about sponsons Apr 19, 2017 03:32 PM #6

  • 6104696
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The story I got was that the problem was caused by some penetrating screw holes (battery tray, fuel tank tie downs, etc) not being properly caulked at the factory, and that the factory has been trained on the issue.

I took delivery of my 2017 a few weeks ago, and had decided against having the sponson drains installed. After seeing how the boat is built, I decided to have them added after a week since I was going back to the dealer for minor warranty work. The only way to check for water...is to have holes. I talked to the service manager at the dealer...Bayliner provides them with info on exactly where to place the drains, and how to seal/caulk them. The inside of my sponsons seem dry. Also, the compartments are foam filled and feel like fiberglass.

As I have said before, I was aware of this potential issue before I ordered the boat, and I am not worried about it. Some are worried about it, and that is fine. There are other boats to be bought.

Why am I not worried about it? Several reasons. Brunswick has, for many years, built boats with similar "sealed" compartments that are filled with foam, which could get wet. These boats are called "Boston Whaler." Perhaps you've heard of them? They last a long time and hold their value quite well. Another builder that does the same thing, top tier IMO, is Everglades. They too last a long time and hold their value quite well.

Now, one big difference is that these "sealed" compartment do, in some (maybe all) cases, drain to the bilge, which has a drain. So, in my opinion, the "design flaw" with the element hull designs is the fact that they don't do the sponson drains at the factory (like, for example, the Carolina Skiff DLV hulls) . But, in my opinion, the dealer installing them (properly) after the fact is fine.

Sure, you can get a VR5 or 185 or similar for a few thousand more than an Element XL, but the Element and the XL have numerous advantages (for me, anyway), and once you start doing a real apples to apples comparison, that few thousand grows a bit. And having had numerous Brunswick products over the years, I am not concerned that they have designed and built a "disaster."

Relax and enjoy your boat. If/when you start to fret about the sponsons having water, have your dealer install the drains. If some water comes out periodically, don't sweat it. If you want to try to seal the compartments after seeing water in them, you could back out the screws that penetrate the floor in the sponson areas (in the XL this would include the fuel tank tie downs on the port side, and on the starboard side the L brackets that hold the rear partition, the screws that hold down the stern light holders, and.....not sure what else; maybe some cable ties.....
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taking delivery of a new 2016 element xl asked bayliner about sponsons Apr 19, 2017 11:19 PM #7

  • oakplank
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6104696 wrote:
The story I got was that the problem was caused by some penetrating screw holes (battery tray, fuel tank tie downs, etc) not being properly caulked at the factory, and that the factory has been trained on the issue.

If you want to try to seal the compartments after seeing water in them, you could back out the screws that penetrate the floor in the sponson areas (in the XL this would include the fuel tank tie downs on the port side, and on the starboard side the L brackets that hold the rear partition, the screws that hold down the stern light holders, and.....not sure what else; maybe some cable ties.....

So, why isn't Bayliner requesting we bring our Elements to our dealers for proper caulking of these areas?
The bilge has a pump. The sponsons don't have pumps. My Element is in the water from late April to early October. Why should I periodically have to remove my boat out of the water, remove the new sponsons plugs to release the water and re-launch?
I think Bayliner is not telling us the big picture. They won't authorize 1 hour of labour plus $5.00 for the caulking to permanently fix this problem. Come on Bayliner, don't insult my intelligence.
Parry Sound, Ontario Canada
2014 Bayliner Element with Mercury 60 HP EFI Big Foot OB
12 foot aluminum fishing boat with 5 HP Mercury OB
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taking delivery of a new 2016 element xl asked bayliner about sponsons Apr 20, 2017 12:20 AM #8

  • greebo
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I asked the Australian distributor of Bayliner whether it was likely that my 2014 Element XL was effected by this problem.
They contacted Bayliner and my behalf and replied "Regarding water in the sponsons this affected a limited amount of Bayliner Elements manufactured in the US
BLBN1696E414 was manufactured in Poland and there have been no reports of this fault from that factory
."
The world economy at work. Boat manufactured in Poland, in Mexico, fitted out and sold in Australia on behalf of an American company. Oh, and I nearly forgot, Karavan trailer that I think was manufactured in the USA.
Peter Walter-Smith
Riverport of Goolwa, South Australia
2014 Bayliner Element XL
115HP Mercury EFI
Last Edit: Apr 20, 2017 11:18 AM by greebo. Reason: Upda6
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taking delivery of a new 2016 element xl asked bayliner about sponsons Apr 20, 2017 03:57 PM #9

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oakplank wrote:
So, why isn't Bayliner requesting we bring our Elements to our dealers for proper caulking of these areas?
The bilge has a pump. The sponsons don't have pumps. My Element is in the water from late April to early October. Why should I periodically have to remove my boat out of the water, remove the new sponsons plugs to release the water and re-launch?
I think Bayliner is not telling us the big picture. They won't authorize 1 hour of labour plus $5.00 for the caulking to permanently fix this problem. Come on Bayliner, don't insult my intelligence.

I agree with you.

That having been said, has anyone reported so much water in the sponsons so as to effect performance or safety? I know one fellow mentioned "quarts," which is more of course than I would expect but....I am wondering if those with water have noticed more water in the port sponson than the starboard sponson? The fuel tank compartment is the only compartment that could "hold" any significant amount of water for any period of time long enough for it to drip down through uncaulked screw holes into the sponson compartment. The screw holes on the other side would just have water pass over them on their way to the bilge.

I would think (but do not know) that you could keep an eye on your waterline and if you see it getting lower, then you would need to pull your boat and take it to the dealer and tell them to fix it. But I would guess (again, guessing so I do not know) that the water intrusion should be so minimal so as to be something that you can drain once per year.

I guess another reason why this is less of a concern for me is that my boat will be lift-stored and I can easily remove the plugs occasionally with no hassle. If my lift breaks, I would trailer it.

I can certainly see why this could be a bigger issue for wet-slipped boats. But, I think then this is the same quandary for the Carolina Skiff DLV's with the "sponson" drains...though they might be accessible from topside (they do not have multiple bilge pumps).
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taking delivery of a new 2016 element xl asked bayliner about sponsons Apr 21, 2017 07:07 PM #10

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I just received this email from Bayliner today. "Thank you for writing and for your purchase of a new Bayliner! We have found in a limited number of 160 Elements that water was getting into the outer sponson and becoming trapped because of the M hull design. We have authorized dealers to add drains in the boats affected to drain this trapped water. We determined the cause of the water intrusion was a lack of sealant on the mounting hardware of the components installed to the floor i.e. stern light pole holders, battery tray, fuel tank hold downs and bilge pump hose. We are not aware of any 180 Elements with this issue.



I would ask your dealer to inspect these components for sealant before taking delivery. I don’t expect you to have any problems with this if there is sealant on these components.



Thank you again for your purchase and feel free to contact me again if you have further questions."
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taking delivery of a new 2016 element xl asked bayliner about sponsons Apr 22, 2017 03:52 AM #11

  • oakplank
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atcfan wrote:
I just received this email from Bayliner today. "Thank you for writing and for your purchase of a new Bayliner! We have found in a limited number of 160 Elements that water was getting into the outer sponson and becoming trapped because of the M hull design. We have authorized dealers to add drains in the boats affected to drain this trapped water. We determined the cause of the water intrusion was a lack of sealant on the mounting hardware of the components installed to the floor i.e. stern light pole holders, battery tray, fuel tank hold downs and bilge pump hose. We are not aware of any 180 Elements with this issue.



I would ask your dealer to inspect these components for sealant before taking delivery. I don’t expect you to have any problems with this if there is sealant on these components.



Thank you again for your purchase and feel free to contact me again if you have further questions."

.......again, why won't Bayliner send Element owners a Service Bulletin authorizing dealers to properly caulk the suspect areas? I have pictures of the water coming out of each sponsons. Should I have to continue emptying my sponsons just because Bayliner refuse to pay for one hour of labour plus the cost of one tube of sealant?
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Parry Sound, Ontario Canada
2014 Bayliner Element with Mercury 60 HP EFI Big Foot OB
12 foot aluminum fishing boat with 5 HP Mercury OB
Last Edit: Apr 22, 2017 03:54 AM by oakplank.
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