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TOPIC: Automatic Bilge, 2015 185

Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 02 May 2016 13:53 #26

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RobMick wrote: I thought that if the power source is 12v, regardless of how many connections, that is the most that will go to that pump...?
That is correct!

Regardless, I also have a question...

I have just bought an auto float switch that I want to install. I have an "on/off" helm switch. I am now in the habit of turning off my red battery key when I exit the boat, so that is why I want a completely automatic bilge pump setup. How does the float and pump get its power if the battery key is turned off and removed without wiring it directly to the battery...?
Many will suggest picking up a 12 vdc supply from a direct battery connection! :S :whistle:
Small wire terminals and direct battery connections = small terminal corrosion, mistakes when doing R&R of batteries, etc. :evil:
Do yourself and your boat a favor by NOT doing this!!!!!!!!!

Instead...... pull your float switch power from an "Un-Interrupted" power source that makes more sense...... and that will be from the rear #1 or #2 terminal of your MBSS.
Most of us want our float switch power to offer the most AH possible..... which means the #2 terminal, of which would be our HLBB (house load battery bank).

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 02 May 2016 13:56 #27

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David1975 wrote: 1..... You need to connect the float switch directly to the battery and the existing bilge pump.
2..... Leave all other wiring in tact and it will still work from the switch but it will also work when the battery key is off.


1.... see my previous posting regarding direct battery connections and the "why not" for doing this.

2..... Does battery key = MBSS?
Keep in mind that when the MBSS is OFF, the helm switch will NOT operate the bilge pump..... only the float switch will be able to operate the pump!

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 02 May 2016 14:04 #28

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Just to be clear MBSS is the red switch that turn off all the power to boat? If so that were I connected my power to my float switch.

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 02 May 2016 14:53 #29

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Hmm...In reading some of the posts I see that I did it "almost correct" I ran a power lead to the battery for the float switch, but I can see the benefit of running it to the battery switch. I'll do that soon.

Thanks for the input

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 02 May 2016 15:25 #30

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Waterdowg wrote: Just to be clear MBSS is the red switch that turn off all the power to boat? If so that were I connected my power to my float switch.


MBSS = Main Battery Selector Switch. OFF/#1/ALL-BOTH/#2
It could be Red, it could be Orange or it could be Black or Gray.
Power being taken from the "Common" terminal is Interruptible.
Power being taken from the #1 or #2 terminal is Un-Interruptible.

If you moor this boat, you will want float switch power that is Un-Interruptible.



Whiskey31 wrote: Hmm...In reading some of the posts I see that I did it "almost correct" I ran a power lead to the battery for the float switch, but I can see the benefit of running it to the battery switch. I'll do that soon.
See above. :)

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 02 May 2016 15:37 #31

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Waterdowg wrote: Just to be clear MBSS is the red switch that turn off all the power to boat? If so that were I connected my power to my float switch.


Just to be clear, here is a picture of the famous RED KEY.
I will assume that one wire from the float-switch should be connected to the "Line" terminal of the that switch and the other wire spliced unto the positive (brown) wire of the pump???

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 02 May 2016 17:13 #32

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oakplank wrote:

Waterdowg wrote: Just to be clear MBSS is the red switch that turn off all the power to boat? If so that were I connected my power to my float switch.


Just to be clear, here is a picture of the famous RED KEY.
I will assume that one wire from the float-switch should be connected to the "Line" terminal of the that switch and the other wire spliced unto the positive (brown) wire of the pump???



That is exactly how I connected mine.

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 03 May 2016 01:30 #33

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So what is the difference in connecting the float switch to the LINE terminal or direct to the battery? It is the same wire...just a feet away????

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 03 May 2016 02:35 #34

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windman wrote: So what is the difference in connecting the float switch to the LINE terminal or direct to the battery? It is the same wire...just a feet away????


picking up a 12 vdc supply from a direct battery connection! :S :whistle:
Small wire terminals and direct battery connections = small terminal corrosion, mistakes when doing R&R of batteries, etc. :evil:
Do yourself and your boat a favor by NOT doing this!!!!!!!!!

As per previous post by 2850Bounty

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 03 May 2016 04:52 #35

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Ok I understand about mbss switch....what or how should I wire the auto float switch if I only have "1" battery?!

The "red battery key" that I was referring to is the key that is either on or off to provide battery power to the boat. When off, nothing works on my boat...

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 03 May 2016 10:24 #36

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RobMick wrote: Ok I understand about mbss switch....what or how should I wire the auto float switch if I only have "1" battery?!

The "red battery key" that I was referring to is the key that is either on or off to provide battery power to the boat. When off, nothing works on my boat...

I Think I have the same Red battery Key as you on my boat with only 1 battery. On the back of that switch are two terminals. One that is wire to main power on the boat. The other terminal has wire that goes directly to the battery. This is were I attached my float switch. When I turn off my battery key the float switch still works. Below is a picture of my Battery Key.

I think you are getting confused with all the does and don'ts. I know I did until I think I understood what he was saying. Its more of an opinion and advise to not attach it directly to the battery post in fear of corrosion. Now new Bayliner from the dealer has several small wires and terminals to the battery from the factory,

Don't over think this. it is really simple, One wire from the float switch to the Hot side of the battery Key. The other wire from the float switch gets tapped into the the Brown wire from the Bilge Pump. Wired this way is the Float switch will work with the Battery Key OFF. Also when the battery switch is turned on the Manual switch on the dash will work.



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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 03 May 2016 11:32 #37

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This is how I did mine. I plan on wiring it to the switch post soon. I believe the

re is no impact on how it works, its just that it seems to make sense to have it wired under the protected switch.

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 03 May 2016 12:33 #38

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oakplank wrote:

windman wrote: So what is the difference in connecting the float switch to the LINE terminal or direct to the battery? It is the same wire...just a feet away????


picking up a 12 vdc supply from a direct battery connection! :S :whistle:
Small wire terminals and direct battery connections = small terminal corrosion, mistakes when doing R&R of batteries, etc. :evil:
Do yourself and your boat a favor by NOT doing this!!!!!!!!!

As per previous post by 2850Bounty

Ok now can someone explain to me why a small wire to the battery terminal will make corrosion and why the same small wire to a terminal 1 feet away of the battery but on a switch with the terminal of the same dimension would not make corrosion?

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 03 May 2016 12:37 #39

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I would like to know the same thing. Also If its such and issue then why does Bayliner do it in the factory. But that might be stupid question.

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 03 May 2016 12:48 #40

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By belief is that attached to the switch the connection would be tighter? and covered? I agree, I don't see the real difference but I just like the idea of less connections on the battery should I need to take it out.

I plan on changing mine but I don't the need to do it asap.

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 03 May 2016 19:49 #41

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Frankly I would rather have the connection at the battery.....certainly makes it easier to diagnose and track it down if it fails to get power. I don't plan on removing my battery anytime soon. Even on winter layup, just disconnect being sure that the battery was charged before winter layover. I installed my "remote battery terminals" also so that I don't have take all the rear seat apart to hook the battery to a charger...I can't wait to use them on the water for my inflator...easy peasy..



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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 03 May 2016 21:44 #42

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RobMick wrote: Frankly I would rather have the connection at the battery.....certainly makes it easier to diagnose and track it down if it fails to get power. I don't plan on removing my battery ant]


Do you have a link of where you bought thoses terminals?

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 14 Jul 2017 13:28 #43

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Interesting finding in my 185....we have had a lot of rain earlier in the week, got home from out of town and went out back to check boat which has been moored instead of up on the lift....need to bug a second covered lift as the pontoon now seems to have found a home under cover of the existing lift, that's another story. Checke dthe bilge, a few inches of water due to the rain. I was going to turn in the bilge pump to pump it out. When I placed the red battery key in, I have learned to always take it out when finished with the boat, once I engaged the key, my bilge pump began pumping the water out. Never noticed this before but I guess I do have an automatic bilge pump after all. I want "total automatic" performance, so I will re-wire the connection at the battery key terminal so that the bilge pump can work regardless of the battery key setting/engagement....should be a pretty simple switch I think.

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1993 Yamaha Waverunner III
1995 Yamaha Waverunner III GP
1995 Yamaha Waverunner III VXR PRO

Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 14 Jul 2017 23:00 #44

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www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...-can-you-tread-water

I wrote this article after my business partners boat sunk AT HIS DOCK!
Please read it.
My last 4 boats were of the cabin type and I am paranoid about water in the bilge.
As one who was Coast Guard auxiliary operational patrol commander and the "safety guy" in my civilian job, I tend to err on the side of safety and reliability.


The definition of: "off-on-auto" bilge switches is: a device designed to sink your boat. My last boat came with one, and I ripped it out after the test drive. There should be NO WAY to disable a float switch either accidentally or on purpose.

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 15 Jul 2017 14:25 #45

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oakplank wrote:

Waterdowg wrote: Just to be clear MBSS is the red switch that turn off all the power to boat? If so that were I connected my power to my float switch.

If the float switch receives power from the "common" terminal, it will NOT be Un-Interruptible.
We want Un-Interruptible power for the float switch.... such as #2 terminal of the MBSS.
IOW..... the common can be interrupted, whereas the #2 cannot be (unless we physically disconnect it)


Just to be clear, here is a picture of the famous RED KEY.
If ON/OFF ONLY........, it is NOT an MBSS .... it would be a BS (Batt Switch w/ On or OFF only).
MBSS = Main Battery Selector Switch...... Off--- #1--- BOTH/ALL --- #2


I will assume that one wire from the float-switch should be connected to the "Line" terminal of the that switch and the other wire spliced unto the positive (brown) wire of the pump???

This is NOT an MBSS..... this would be a BS.
and by the way....... circuit 5104 A -16 red/purple would be Un-Interruptible.




.

windman wrote: So what is the difference in connecting the float switch to the LINE terminal or direct to the battery? It is the same wire...just a feet away????

That is correct. Schematically the two are the same!

However, a direct battery connection subjects the small terminal to corrosion. It also adds to the dreaded Battery Rat's Nest that we all too often see.
Plus, when doing battery R&R, it adds to confusion as to What/Where does this wire go??? etc!

The correct Un-Interruptible power source will be at the #2 MBSS terminal..... of which is typically associated with the HLBB (house load batt bank) of which is the largest Amp Hour source.
It is permanent, and will not cause confusion during battery R&R, etc.
IOW.... wire it once only and it won't need to be addressed again! :)

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 15 Jul 2017 14:36 #46

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windman wrote:

oakplank wrote:

windman wrote: So what is the difference in connecting the float switch to the LINE terminal or direct to the battery? It is the same wire...just a feet away????


picking up a 12 vdc supply from a direct battery connection! :S :whistle:
Small wire terminals and direct battery connections = small terminal corrosion, mistakes when doing R&R of batteries, etc. :evil:
Do yourself and your boat a favor by NOT doing this!!!!!!!!!

As per previous post by 2850Bounty

Believe me....... over the years with all of my own boats and with the boats that I have worked on, I have seen so many cases where this is so messed up.
When we see battery cables ONLY at our battery banks, things are typically OK and Good!

Ok now can someone explain to me why a small wire to the battery terminal will make corrosion and why the same small wire to a terminal 1 feet away of the battery but on a switch with the terminal of the same dimension would not make corrosion?
Go out and look at your car/truck battery.
Unless you are absolutely anal about keeping things in pristine condition, you will see small amounts of corrosive activity from the creeping/crawling electrolyte.
The large cable terminals will generally hold up to this....... whereas the smaller wire terminals will generally not hold up to this.

And as said..... this is not entirely about the small terminal corrosion. Much is about a more permanent connection AND is about avoiding the Battery Rat's Nest that occurs from the unnecessary multiple circuit connections to our battery banks! :evil:

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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 15 Jul 2017 23:46 #47

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I looked at my red battery switch today. Virtually impossible to get at the back of it. I did trace a wire labeled "bilge pump" that is coming out of the back of the red key switch. It also has an inline fuse....so question is because I cannot get behind the red key switch to not only see, I cannot feel back up I there as well. Can I simply splice a wire from the + battery terminal into this existing "bilge pump" wire? I understand about the possible corrosion issue with a small connector at the battery, I really don't have a "rats nest" either and I don't remove my battery even over winter layup. Boating on fresh water inland lakes probably isn't as aggressive in corrosion as salt water and I can clean the terminal and connector before splash and after pull out....will this power supply directly from the battery also make the bilge pump "truly automatic" and then certainly when the red battery key is engaged it would work as it does now??

Thanks for you help I advance

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1999 Chaparral 233 Sunesta Ltd., 5.0 Volvo
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1995 Yamaha Waverunner III GP
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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 16 Jul 2017 13:22 #48

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Rob, please understand that these are my preferences, and are not mandates. You do as you please!

For me....... I want battery cables ONLY at my battery banks, and for other circuits (depending on what I would be powering), I take power from either the #1, #2 or the "common" MBSS terminals


RobMick wrote: I looked at my red battery switch today.
A BS or an MBSS?

Virtually impossible to get at the back of it. I did trace a wire labeled "bilge pump" that is coming out of the back of the red key switch.
OK, but which terminal is this wire connected to?
One terminal will be Un-Interruptible, and one will be Interruptible.


It also has an inline fuse....
Needs to be rated for a large enough Amp Draw as to not blow from the pump load alone.

so question is because I cannot get behind the red key switch to not only see, I cannot feel back up I there as well. Can I simply splice a wire from the + battery terminal into this existing "bilge pump" wire?
Hmmm, perhaps you may not be understanding how a Main Bilge Pump and it's Float Switch should be connected!
The Bilge Pump itself is not wired directly to a battery or to the MBSS terminal (the Float Switch will be).
The Bilge Pump will have two (2) potential power sources.
a........ one from the ON-OFF (only) helm switch. This is an Interruptible power source because the MBSS must be ON in order for this switch to activate the Bilge Pump.
b....... one from the separate and higher elevation Float Switch. The MBSS does not need to be ON in order for this switch to activate the Bilge Pump.


I understand about the possible corrosion issue with a small connector at the battery, I really don't have a "rats nest" either and I don't remove my battery even over winter layup. Boating on fresh water inland lakes probably isn't as aggressive in corrosion as salt water and I can clean the terminal and connector before splash and after pull out....

will this power supply directly from the battery also make the bilge pump "truly automatic" and then certainly when the red battery key is engaged it would work as it does now??
The only Automatic Bilge Pump "function" is a result of the Float Switch being in the loop! In other words, the Float Switch is what puts the "automatic" into the scenario.
Otherwise, the Bilge Pump is manually turned on via the ON-OFF helm switch.


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Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 16 Jul 2017 13:51 #49

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Understood....I think this thing is wired wrong. Again I didn't activate or engage the bilge pump switch at the helm when I put the red battery key and engaged it....when I engaged the battery key....the bilge pump automatically turned on without me switching it on from the helm....so it would seem to me that essentially someone tried to make it truly "automatic" but place the connection on the wrong post on the battery key switch .... so if I run power directly from the battery and splice it into the existing wire going to the battery switch hence supply "constant" power wouldn't the now "constant" supply of power enable the bilge pump and float switch to work automatically? Obviously when the battery key is engaged, it would still work automatically as it did when I first put the battery key in and engaged the key. Again the pump kicked I. By itself before I could turn it on manually at the helm..

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1993 Yamaha Waverunner III
1995 Yamaha Waverunner III GP
1995 Yamaha Waverunner III VXR PRO

Automatic Bilge, 2015 185 16 Jul 2017 21:06 #50

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Bounty,
Thanks for your help. I ended up splicing into the wire going into the red battery key switch labeled "bilge pump" with an additional connection directly at the + battery terminal. Bilge pump now kicks in even without the red key inserted....so truly automatic now. I don't know if the boat was originally delivered that way to original owner with a float switch in an attempt to provide automatic operation or if the PO who is an engineer installed it. It wouldn't surprise me that the dealer may have installed and wired the float switch into the battery key connection which only when turned "on" and left in was an "automatic" mode

Needless to say, I am more happy now and certainly much more st ease regarding the boat taking on rain water while I am away for a few days

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Hell, Michigan (yes we really live in a city named "Hell" in Michigan)
2012 BR 185 - 3.0 TKS
1999 Chaparral 233 Sunesta Ltd., 5.0 Volvo
1985 Harris Flotebote Classic 240
1993 Yamaha Waverunner III VXR
1993 Yamaha Waverunner III
1995 Yamaha Waverunner III GP
1995 Yamaha Waverunner III VXR PRO
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