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TOPIC: 2858 kicker motor

2858 kicker motor Apr 12, 2013 09:16 PM #1

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I seen a 2858 for sale the other day that had a kicker motor on it for slow cruising or emergency but the ad was gone when I went back to ask some questions. Lets say mid 90's to 2001 2858 can you install a kicker motor that would steer and push this boat at about 4 to 7 MPH down stream on the Mississippi and tenn rivers and what size would you use for best fuel burn and reliability. Can this be driven from the bridge? Just want to putt and enjoy a long slow trip, and when needed start and use the primary motor. to get to shore or move out of the way or whatever. Thanks
Over the horizon only looks the same to people who have no sense of adventure.
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2858 kicker motor Apr 12, 2013 10:09 PM #2

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I run a 15 HP kicker on my 28 footer. It will move the boat easily at a slow trolling speed, wide open at just over 5 knotts.

Four stoke kickers will get better fuel economy and run smoother and cleaner, but weigh a bit more than a two stroke.

I have seen a few 2858s with kickers mounted on the swim step. The swim step is low enough to the water that this set up works well with a long shaft kicker. The swim step on my boat was too high off of the water to work well. You can get setups that will allow you to steer it and adjust the throttle from the cockpit or fly bridge, the fancier the system you get the more money you will spend, but it can be done.

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2000, Ciera SC 2859
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2858 kicker motor Apr 14, 2013 12:49 AM #3

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bumpbug;769498 wrote:
I seen a 2858 for sale the other day that had a kicker motor on it for slow cruising or emergency but the ad was gone when I went back to ask some questions. Lets say mid 90's to 2001 2858 can you install a kicker motor that would steer and push this boat at about 4 to 7 MPH down stream on the Mississippi and tenn rivers and what size would you use for best fuel burn and reliability. Can this be driven from the bridge? Just want to putt and enjoy a long slow trip, and when needed start and use the primary motor. to get to shore or move out of the way or whatever. Thanks
I have a 2859 and I have a 15 hp honda 4 stroke, it moves boat at about 5-7 knots, it is mounted on the port side, I also have steering bar that hooks to my outdrive so I can steer from pilothouse.
Has got me home twice now plus good trolling motor. :worth
1994 2859 Bayliner Cierra Classic
7.4 Cu In 454 , 400HP New 2013:smileflag
New Bravo 3 outdrive 2011
My summer condo:D
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2858 kicker motor Apr 14, 2013 03:03 AM #4

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With a 15hp kicker you say you can do 5-7, how hard are you running that motor to maintain that and how much fuel is burning to do it. Would a 20 HP do it at a lower RPM and easier on the motor and fuel burn?
Over the horizon only looks the same to people who have no sense of adventure.
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2858 kicker motor Apr 14, 2013 05:11 PM #5

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bumpbug;769773 wrote:
With a 15hp kicker you say you can do 5-7, how hard are you running that motor to maintain that and how much fuel is burning to do it. Would a 20 HP do it at a lower RPM and easier on the motor and fuel burn?

I am sure a 20hp would move you faster at lower RPM but you also need to consider what you are mounting to (swim platform,Ect) as I think a 20hp will weigh more than the 15 HP.
I don't have any idea how much fuel is used as mine is hooked to my main fuel tank..
These are some things you will have to figure for your circumstances.
Good Luck
Happy Boating:smileflag
1994 2859 Bayliner Cierra Classic
7.4 Cu In 454 , 400HP New 2013:smileflag
New Bravo 3 outdrive 2011
My summer condo:D
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2858 kicker motor Apr 14, 2013 05:42 PM #6

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Don't know if this is any help, but:

FWIW, a 15 HP and a 20 HP Tohatsu weigh the same ~114 lbs. (four stroke)

I had a 9.8 Tohatsu on a 2855 mainly for emergency power and it was OK for trolling on a calm day with no active tides or current. In an emergency when you add any inclement weather, it was woefully inadequate and could not be counted on to keep me out of trouble.

The dilemma is that to get a reliable emergency kicker on this size of boat, you have to go up to at least 15 HP (in my experience). At this point you start to add quite a bit of weight to the stern of a 28'er.

If I was doing it again with my 2855 I would look at a 2 stroke 15 HP Yamaha @ ~75 lbs.
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Las Vegas in the winter, BC coast in the summer
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2858 kicker motor Apr 14, 2013 09:36 PM #7

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What I am looking at doing with it is just pushing it downstream with the current on the Mississippi and tenn river to keep the nose straight, 3 to 5 MPH full time instead of running the main motor. River current is 3 to 5 MPH. I will use the main motor for faster speeds or manuvering to places or getting out of the way. So basicaly the kicker motor will be the primary forward motion motor to get downstream at a snails pace for exploring and boondocking, getting nowhere fast. Does that sound like a doable solution with minamal fuel consumption or is it not worth doing. At what percent throttle would you guess it would be on a 15 to 20 HP kicker to do this? If it has to run it's guts out to push it at that speed it probably would not do much better than Idealing on the main motor.
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2858 kicker motor Apr 14, 2013 11:16 PM #8

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bumpbug;769923 wrote:
What I am looking at doing with it is just pushing it downstream with the current on the Mississippi and tenn river to keep the nose straight, 3 to 5 MPH full time instead of running the main motor. River current is 3 to 5 MPH. I will use the main motor for faster speeds or manuvering to places or getting out of the way. So basicaly the kicker motor will be the primary forward motion motor to get downstream at a snails pace for exploring and boondocking, getting nowhere fast. Does that sound like a doable solution with minamal fuel consumption or is it not worth doing. At what percent throttle would you guess it would be on a 15 to 20 HP kicker to do this? If it has to run it's guts out to push it at that speed it probably would not do much better than Idealing on the main motor.

As you near hull speed about five knots on a 28 footer you will have to run a 15 HP engine pretty hard, at least that has been my experience. You may do better with a high thrust model. But at 3 knots you can throttle down quite a bit. If you are going to use it a lot, think about a 4 stroke as they get better fuel economy, don't smoke as much, and run cleaner. If the river current is 3-5 MPH going down stream on the kicker would be no problem, but going up stream, you will do well to make any headway at all.

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2858 kicker motor Apr 17, 2013 05:44 PM #9

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malayphred;769888 wrote:
Don't know if this is any help, but:

FWIW, a 15 HP and a 20 HP Tohatsu weigh the same ~114 lbs. (four stroke)

I had a 9.8 Tohatsu on a 2855 mainly for emergency power and it was OK for trolling on a calm day with no active tides or current. In an emergency when you add any inclement weather, it was woefully inadequate and could not be counted on to keep me out of trouble.

The dilemma is that to get a reliable emergency kicker on this size of boat, you have to go up to at least 15 HP (in my experience). At this point you start to add quite a bit of weight to the stern of a 28'er.

If I was doing it again with my 2855 I would look at a 2 stroke 15 HP Yamaha @ ~75 lbs.

FWIW -- I have the Tohatsu 20HP high thrust long shaft mounted on my swim step that I use for trolling on my 288. Yes, this engine is the same engine as the 15Hp (the 20HP was actually cheaper). Also note that Tohatsu makes the small Mercury engines up to 40Hp -- the 15Hp Mercury Bigfoot is a Tohatsu under the covers. It has absolutely no problem getting the boat up to about 5kts -- but at that speed, the engine is just about maxed out -- 2-3 kts is a simple task for this engine. Downriver with the current, you'd have absolutely no problem maintaining the speeds you outlined and the engine would probably be at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle.

I chose the Tohatsu 20Hp because it has a 12A Alternator (most kickers have 6 or 8 amps), it's 4 stroke, plus it has a built in pull start (I like multiple levels of redundancy out on the ocean). Tohatsu are the largest small outboard manufacturer in the world (they also make the Nissans you see on sailboats). Hear nothing but great comments on their engines -- mine has been bulletproof so far. You want the long shaft engines as wave action will pop the prop up so that it cavitates which can be hard on the engine.

For steering, I use a product called RemoteTroll (www.remotetroll.com -- model is the RT-85). It's a kicker bracket that has a 12V electric actuator that can be controlled by a wired or wireless handheld unit to steer the boat. I couldn't find any other product out there that combined both the mounting bracket and remote steering for anything close to the price of this unit. I'm on my third season with it and it works well. Note however that I did have a warranty claim to replace the actuator, but the company was fantastic and couriered the replacement the same day.
Terry
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2858 kicker motor Apr 17, 2013 06:18 PM #10

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Terry, what kind of fuel burn do you get with that to push your 288. I know boats don't get good MPG that's why I am trying to justify if the kicker is worth at least pushing it down stream just enough to keep it steerable.
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2858 kicker motor Apr 17, 2013 07:31 PM #11

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Actually I have no idea what that engine burns -- I've never measured it. Not much -- probably about .5GPH or less.

At idle speeds (which is what you're really talking about here) the 5.7L in my 288 only burns about 1.5 GPH and gets about 3.5MPG on the ocean. I'd guess you'd be 4-5MPG downstream on a river using your main engine.

Probably a good financial problem to look at -- call it $4,500 for a new 20HP kicker (bracket and controls installed). If that saved you 1GPH it's going to take well over 1000 hours to justify the cost just on fuel savings alone.
Terry
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2858 kicker motor Apr 17, 2013 07:37 PM #12

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Let's not forget that idling the big motor WILL NOT achieve enough RPM for the alternator to kick on and charge the batteries. It won't take long for the batteries to discharge.
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2858 kicker motor Apr 17, 2013 08:19 PM #13

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leedub;770764 wrote:
Let's not forget that idling the big motor WILL NOT achieve enough RPM for the alternator to kick on and charge the batteries. It won't take long for the batteries to discharge.

Bit of a drail of the OP's question but really? I've never seen the voltage meter fall below 14V when my big engine is at idle. Agree that you're not going to get the full 65A out of the system, but it seems to always supply more power than the system is using. If it didn't, voltage would fall to 12V and below. I have a Trimetric monitor that measures Amps in/out of the system. At idle speeds, with all my electronics on (chartplotter, VHF, fridge etc) Amperage is always in the positive.
Terry
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2858 kicker motor Apr 17, 2013 09:07 PM #14

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TenMile;770775 wrote:
Bit of a drail of the OP's question but really?

That's okay, yesterday he was going North to Alaska, today he's going with the flow on Ol' Miss.

I can't wait to see what tomorrows adventure will be. :getsmilie
" WET EVER "
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2858 kicker motor Apr 17, 2013 10:14 PM #15

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dktool;770783 wrote:
That's okay, yesterday he was going North to Alaska, today he's going with the flow on Ol' Miss.

I can't wait to see what tomorrows adventure will be. :getsmilie

HAHA - nice catch!!

On that note, does anybody know if my 2452 will handle the afternoon windchop on Lake Titicaca?
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2858 kicker motor Apr 18, 2013 03:21 AM #16

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dktool;770783 wrote:
That's okay, yesterday he was going North to Alaska, today he's going with the flow on Ol' Miss.

I can't wait to see what tomorrows adventure will be. :getsmilie


I do plan on doing the river trip, but was curious about if the 2858 would be a boat that could do a trip to Alaska. I have mostly seen bigger boats and trawler style boats on these type trips, now I know why because of the weather and seas. And it was kind of a way to find out how sturdy that type of boat was, sounds like it could make it but would be on the very edge.
Over the horizon only looks the same to people who have no sense of adventure.
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2858 kicker motor Apr 18, 2013 03:56 AM #17

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This is what has me so keen on doing the river, never said I was going to Alaska

http://bacshortly.wordpress.com/
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2858 kicker motor Apr 18, 2013 12:32 PM #18

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bumpbug;770863 wrote:
This is what has me so keen on doing the river, never said I was going to Alaska

http://bacshortly.wordpress.com/

Nothing wrong with asking questions. That is what this forum is all about.

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2000, Ciera SC 2859
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2858 kicker motor Apr 18, 2013 01:01 PM #19

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leedub;770764 wrote:
Let's not forget that idling the big motor WILL NOT achieve enough RPM for the alternator to kick on and charge the batteries. It won't take long for the batteries to discharge.

With a one wire you have to initially bring the rpm's up to excite it, but once it kicks in it should continue to charge even at idle.
Wayne
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2858 kicker motor Apr 21, 2017 12:54 PM #20

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Sorry to dig up an old thread, looking for a kicker for my 288 and its handy other people have done the leg work finding the best setup :)

Just a couple of questions, i see that you can control it left and right, but how is the throttle controlled? Is it possible to remotely control both from the flybridge?
TenMile wrote:
leedub;770764 wrote:
Let's not forget that idling the big motor WILL NOT achieve enough RPM for the alternator to kick on and charge the batteries. It won't take long for the batteries to discharge.

Bit of a drail of the OP's question but really? I've never seen the voltage meter fall below 14V when my big engine is at idle. Agree that you're not going to get the full 65A out of the system, but it seems to always supply more power than the system is using. If it didn't, voltage would fall to 12V and below. I have a Trimetric monitor that measures Amps in/out of the system. At idle speeds, with all my electronics on (chartplotter, VHF, fridge etc) Amperage is always in the positive.
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