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TOPIC: BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING

BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 01 Aug 2017 18:56 #26

  • metz123
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I don't think that it is. The forward thrust is just going to go through an arc (if the strap or chain holds) instead of strictly horizontal. The bow is going forward and down but it's still going forward. The bow stop is still going to have a large amount of energy to absorb and unless it is braced it's going to give.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 02 Aug 2017 02:42 #27

  • Norton Rider
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metz123 wrote: I don't think that it is. The forward thrust is just going to go through an arc (if the strap or chain holds) instead of strictly horizontal. The bow is going forward and down but it's still going forward. The bow stop is still going to have a large amount of energy to absorb and unless it is braced it's going to give.


You seem to be looking for perfection. I am not. I am simply doing what I can with what I got.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 02 Aug 2017 04:38 #28

  • builderdude
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The saftey chain/strap Norton Rider suggested would definatly keep the boat from moving forward as far as it did in OP's situation. The forward/downward force ( "arc" ) during rapid deceleration would definitely be applied for sure, but the boat would have to collapse the winch post in order to move forward and even if it did the boat still wouldn't move forward very far.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 04 Aug 2017 15:42 #29

  • montagc
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Were the rear straps angled under the boat? Towards the front of the trailer? Was your winch line angled up towards the boat or down? If all three tiedown points were pulling forward or teh winch was pulling up, that also may have added to the problem. A properly set up trailer will have all the attachment points pulling down on the boat to minimize bouncing, and to keep the straps tight in order to keep the boat tight to the bunks. The rear straps aren't just to keep boat on trailer from bouncing, they also add down force to the boat, supplementing the mass of the boat in the static friction between bunks and boat. More friction = lower likelihood of sliding in any direction. If the front winch line was pulling upwards, it defeats the purpose.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 04 Aug 2017 15:53 #30

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bobmorgan wrote: Just a thought, Perhaps the issue is not which straps or which post would best stop the carnage. Perhaps the real issue is are you following the vehicle in front of you to closely to enable you to stop should the unexpected happen :whistle: As for the OP's original question, float it off ;)


1. He didn't hit anybody and did stop.

2. He stated he cant trailer it in its current state.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 04 Aug 2017 18:13 #31

  • Mrwalleyeman
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Everything on the boat was set up by the dealer/ manufactures, boat was tied down correctly. And no I was not following to close.

A buddy came over Wednesday to help me get it ready to tow it to get it repaired., and while we were doing that we found several nuts and bolts o. The trailer that were fairly loose, ones that didn’t even have anything to do with the parts that were damaged. I will be having some discussions with Bayliner on that.

So I did get the boat and trailer over to the repair facility on Thursday and they lifted the boat off the trailer and had it fixed in about 4 hours.

Also thanks to everyone for the feedback, positive and negative. It’s all good.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 05 Aug 2017 17:21 #32

  • riplash
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Thats good news that the trailer is fixed. Can you post a picture of the bow stop set up now? Even though it was bent and damaged in your original post, it looked like something wasn't right even if everything was straight.

Cheers,
Rip.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 06 Aug 2017 03:18 #33

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The new bow stop seems to be way better. But here is a pic of the how it was setup when we picked the boat up in late March and then the new new one. This new style is what I have been used to. My old Fiberform had a very similar set up to this one, except with two rollers on the bow stop.

Also I will say that I had EZLoader Boat Trailers here in Spokane fix the trailer. They gave me a fair quote, and the parts for the bunks, bunk Brackets and the parts they used also seemed to be more heavy duty then the Karavan Parts.

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FISHING ISNT A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH ITS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT.
2016 Bayliner 195 deckboat
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Last Edit: by Mrwalleyeman.

BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 06 Aug 2017 06:09 #34

  • Solandri
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Mrwalleyeman wrote: The new bow stop seems to be way better. But here is a pic of the how it was setup when we picked the boat up in late March and then the new new one.

The original one is trash. The new one is better, but not by much. I hadn't realized how terrible bow stops were designed until I started searching Google for a picture of what a properly designed one should look like. I wasn't able to find a decent picture of a good one so here's what mine looks like (albeit my boat is a lot heavier):

goo.gl/photos/2WZpGgJhvopSdxpP7

Sorry it isn't a picture of just the bow stop, but you should be able to see enough detail. Notice how it's a series of interlocking triangles, thus making it rigid? That's the entire design principle behind a truss - the metal beams should form a triangle(s). With three beams forming a triangle, forces which would normally bend a lone beam at the joint instead get transferred into crushing or stretching one of the other beams. That way you're getting the maximum possible strength from the metal.

If the boat pushes up against the stop with excess force, your original bow stop will fail simply by buckling over at the joint (as it did in your accident). Your new one will bend over too, but because the angle is more acute, part of the force goes into stretching the metal, thus leaving less force that can buckle the joint. You can improve it by adding a vertical reinforcing beam towards the front to make a triangle. That will prevent it from buckling over at the joint, causing all of the force to go into stretching or compressing the metal Something like this:

forums.iboats.com/filedata/fetch?id=7051063

Now you have me wondering who the heck is designing these terrible bow stops. The math for the buckling strength of a truss isn't that difficult. Neither is the math for the collapsing failure mode of a square or rectangular beam. A properly designed bow stop would absorb the energy of the boat's forward motion by forcing one of the beams to collapse like an accordion. That's how the structural beams in a car's crumple zone are designed to collapse. The boat's kinetic energy gets converted into deforming the metal, thus stopping the boat's motion. And because the collapse occurs over the full length of the beam, the deceleration forces are spread evenly over as much time as possible, minimizing the force on the boat's bow and thus minimizing damage to the boat.

www-mdp.eng.cam.ac.uk/web/library/enginf...quidgedColumnBIG.jpg

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 06 Aug 2017 18:52 #35

  • riplash
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I agree that the original bow stop was trash. To me it looks like it was installed wrong or they left out parts. The new one looks a lot better. It would be better with an extra triangle brace like Solandri mentioned. It appears to me that the original dealer didn't know how to set up the trailer which appears to happen more often than it should. I hope the other dealership you took it to double checked the placement of the stern tie down straps and fore/aft placement of the boat on the trailer as well as maybe a quick once over too.

Good luck,
Rip.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 07 Aug 2017 00:36 #36

  • Mrwalleyeman
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The boat was already on the trailer when it got to the dealership. I do agree that something was not right with it from the getgo, but when I talked to my dealership about fixing it after it happened they said it would take at least 2 weeks for the parts to get here then they wouldn’t be able to get to it for another 2-3, I wasn’t going to wait for over a month to get my boat back. But I am going to fight with my dealership (the sad part is they agreed it shouldn’t have happened at 20 mph or even up to 35 mph) and Bayliner on this issue.
I did send a message to Bayliner via there contact us link on their webpage. I may have to do the same via Facebook. It was $1000 dollar fix that I should not have had to deal with.
I will look into a different bow stop that you guys are talking about hopefully sometime this year.

I think I said in one of my post earlier that I had an issue a long time ago when I had my old Fiberform and had to hit the brakes hard and this kind of thing never happened. And that boat was about 3200 lbs dry weight.

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FISHING ISNT A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH ITS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT.
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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 07 Aug 2017 16:38 #37

  • metz123
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Which dealership? (since you mentioned that you had the trailer repaired in Spokane). I ask because I have the exact same bow stop as you on my trailer. If it failed at 25mph I want to have it fixed also.

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