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TOPIC: BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING

BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 23 Jul 2017 20:17 #1

  • Mrwalleyeman
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Was heading out to the lake and had to hit the brakes hard because was only doing the person in front of me decided to make a quick right turn, was only doing about 20mph.
So after hitting the brakes the boat slide a few feet forward on the trailer broke the bunks and bent and pushed the winch forward also broke the tie down strapss. Now just needing to figure out the best and easiest way to jack the boat off the trailer to replace the bunks and to replace the winch.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to do this or is able to help. Live I the Spokane Valley.

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FISHING ISNT A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH ITS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT.
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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 23 Jul 2017 20:30 #2

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You are lucky you were going slow. I can tell you most trailer whinch posts are inadequate. Pretty much to the point of unsafe in a hard breaking situation.

I live in spokane nine mile long lake area. I can probably help you. I have every thing to do it with including removing the boat. However you will need to do most of it yourself my time is limited. I can coach you if you need it or help some. Maybe we can do some time trading . :)

Notice the winch post on the trailer I have that is 4x6x 1/4 tubing it will hold the boat. Boat might get damaged in a heard break situation but it won't end up on the back of your truck I built that trailer about 10 years ago.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 23 Jul 2017 21:06 #3

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I just more I guess need to jack the boat up enough to maybe brace the broken bunks, to get it to the dealer and have them fix it. And have them check the boat and make sure there is no damage to the boat. with the bunks broken where they are I'm not sure it's safe to trailer it to far. I will say that I am open to the help and possible trading some time. The othe part is I need to try and get it done by this coming Friday.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 23 Jul 2017 21:24 #4

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Good luck with that time line here in spokane. :).

Give me a call if you like. 9937747

If you have other boat damage and such and hope for a insurance claim don't touch it until they see it.

I don't think you can effectively work on bunks with the boat in the trailer. As far as jacking it up floor jack and blocks of wood. Cant really.get it off that way though.

I remove my boat with this



Or I can use my giant saw horse.

Or this

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1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop hull#24
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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 23 Jul 2017 22:10 #5

  • driz
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Dam, you really got some brakes there. I'd suggest in the future using extra heavy duty stern tie downs from now on.
You should be able to lift the front of the boat enough to take the weight off it using a heavy duty tuck load strap. Wrap it under there secure it and lift with a chain fall . A decent come along would even work. If you have a handy tractor or neighbor that does that would be even better. A tractor bucket would easily and gently lift and hold it . I sure wouldn't get under there to do the work without multiple safeties in place but you should be able to fix bunks without getting between the trailer and boat.
If you have yet to slide it back on place you can use a car trolley jack and a piece of wood to spread the weight . Just jack it where you have enough space to pull slowly ahead till the jack reaches an axle or crossmember then just reset the jack again and continue. Till it's back in place.
Here's the smart way. Back it in the drink till it floats free then tie it up while you make your repairs. Put it out on an anchor even. Then fix whatever needs to be done with the bunk. No tractor or slings needed:P You can fix the winch and related things as needed with the boat on there afterward.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 23 Jul 2017 22:54 #6

  • Chesapeake
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I just replaced my bunks. I drove to the ramp on a quiet week day. Floated the boat off, tied it to the pier and replaced the bunks and hardware. I would be hesitant trying to jack the boat up, unless you know exactly what you are doing. I have a 2006 225br.
Good Luck

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 23 Jul 2017 23:23 #7

  • Don77
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That boat and trailer look to be almost new! I would get the insurance involved before doing anything, there looks to bee some damage to the bow that may need more than gelcoat!!!!
Just my 2c!
Don

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 23 Jul 2017 23:37 #8

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I have to agree. Let insurance handle it. If you had stern straps on there and they broke. I would be worried of damage to the stern. It takes lot to break those strips. If you did not have stern straps. Then you need to get some. That will stop the boat from sliding forward. It looks to me that you did not have stern straps which allowed to boat to slide at that slow of a speed.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 24 Jul 2017 00:04 #9

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Don77 wrote: That boat and trailer look to be almost new! I would get the insurance involved before doing anything, there looks to bee some damage to the bow that may need more than gelcoat!!!!
Just my 2c!
Don

+1
IMO the winch post doesn't look strong enough and should have kept the boat from moving that far forward, never seen one set up like that :huh: Transom straps won't really keep a boat from moving forward as they typically attach to the trailer forward of the transom stern ties.
This is how I've seen most winch posts set up.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 24 Jul 2017 01:07 #10

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Mrwalleyeman wrote: I just more I guess need to jack the boat up enough to maybe brace the broken bunks, to get it to the dealer and have them fix it. And have them check the boat and make sure there is no damage to the boat. with the bunks broken where they are I'm not sure it's safe to trailer it to far.

How about using a bunch of wood blocks to hold the boat up like they do at a shipyard, then let the air out of the trailer tires to lower it enough so you can shore up the broken bunks. Then pump air back into the tires.


builderdude wrote: Transom straps won't really keep a boat from moving forward as they typically attach to the trailer forward of the transom stern ties.

Straps can't only offer resistance parallel to the straps. So all transom straps can do is prevent the boat from flying up from the trailer (like if you drive over a pothole. They can't stop it from sliding forward or back, at least not until the boat has slid so far forward or back that the strap is now at a significant angle instead of straight up.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 24 Jul 2017 01:32 #11

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It is a new boat. Just purchased it in March of this year.
I had a buddy of mine come over who use to work for a boat dealer here in Spokane and he said he has only seen something similar to this once before. After him and I, and my wife talked we all agreed to have the insurance get involved.

We did have the transom tie down straps on and one of them broke, the other one was so tight that it was really hard to loosen up. The winch post was normal, but when the boat slid forward it pushed it over like that, the bow hook was under the roller with the winch to the front ( see pic). Also the only actual damage that is on the boat is right below the bow eye a little 1/2 inch spot (can't get pic because the winch post is in the way.) that looks like it got through the gel coat into the fiberglass. The other spots are just photo anomalies. But like someone else pointed out there could be damage to the transom from this, and that' one of the reasons why we got insurance involved. But on a good note I had better luck than someone launching at Farragut State Park (Lake Pend Oreille Idaho )yesterday had a bad time at the launch.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 24 Jul 2017 05:18 #12

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I would replce that bow stop on that trailer with something like builderdude has! That is similar to the one I have on my trailer!
If you bought in March of this year I would also get the selling dealer involved!
I have never seen a bow stop that looked that flimsy in my 40+ years boating!
Don

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 24 Jul 2017 13:13 #13

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You should not rely on the winch post/bow stop alone. Always attach a heavy duty cable, chain, or strap from the bow eye down to the trailer frame.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 25 Jul 2017 01:09 #14

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So our insurance is going to cover this as long as the repairs are going to be more than our deductible. And after talking to the dealership I have to get the boat and trailer to them to get things rolling for the repair. But the issue is making sure the boat won't move forward and the keel hitting the trailer frame (its only like 3/4 of an inch above the trailer right now. Then also towards the stern of the boat it s about an inch above the frame of the trailer.

Norton Rider we did have the winch strap and the safety cable attached.
Also had the tie down straps on the stern but one broke.

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Last Edit: by Mrwalleyeman.

BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 25 Jul 2017 01:19 #15

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IMO you need more clearance between the keel and the cross beams of the trailer. Norton Rider is referring to an additional safety strap/chain that connect to the bow eye and runs aft down to part of the trailer frame. Most guys don't have that but if it was installed on your set up your boat wouldn't have slid forward like it did.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 25 Jul 2017 03:12 #16

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Mrwalleyeman wrote: So our insurance is going to cover this as long as the repairs are going to be more than our deductible. And after talking to the dealership I have to get the boat and trailer to them to get things rolling for the repair. But the issue is making sure the boat won't move forward and the keel hitting the trailer frame (its only like 3/4 of an inch above the trailer right now. Then also towards the stern of the boat it s about an inch above the frame of the trailer.

Norton Rider we did have the winch strap and the safety cable attached.
Also had the tie down straps on the stern but one broke.

I would look into having put I a flat bed or a trailer and moved. It may be safer. How far does it have to go to get the dealership.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 25 Jul 2017 20:27 #17

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It's about 12 miles from my house to the dealership that we bought it from, I stopped in and talked to them and they said it would be about a month before they could have it done. I then stopped at one about 4 miles from my house and they said about 2 weeks. The one that's closer to my house is not a Bayliner dealer but some of the trailers the sell are made by Karavan.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 25 Jul 2017 20:57 #18

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I think your insurance company should contact the selling dealer. IMO that winch post should have never folded over the way it did, looks like it just pivoted on the one bolt.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 25 Jul 2017 23:28 #19

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builderdude wrote: I think your insurance company should contact the selling dealer. IMO that winch post should have never folded over the way it did, looks like it just pivoted on the one bolt.


Unfortunately as per insurance the trailer will get the same winch post installed back on. That design has zero forward motion suport or strength

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 28 Jul 2017 23:27 #20

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Our insurance is not making us get it fixed with parts from Karavan. I found a place that will fix it in one day. Just have to wait to get the check from the insurance co.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 31 Jul 2017 14:39 #21

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I question whether that trailer is up to the task. Is it big enough for your boat? If you are keeping it make sure the swingaway pivot is inspected carefully. Looks like it may have a bow in it.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 31 Jul 2017 15:31 #22

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I went to a wreck where the vehicle ran off the road and into a deep ditch, hitting the far side of the ditch. The sudden impact caused the boat to shoot forward, breaking the winch cable and the rear tie-downs. The boat went into the vehicle, killing the driver. He might have lived except for that. After that and reading this I'm thinking of putting a tie down from my bow eye or maybe the forward cleats back down to the trailer at a slight angle back (as Norton Rider suggested). For the price of a ratchet strap and another minute at setup/tear down it's probably worth it.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 31 Jul 2017 18:58 #23

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alanmoor wrote: I went to a wreck where the vehicle ran off the road and into a deep ditch, hitting the far side of the ditch. The sudden impact caused the boat to shoot forward, breaking the winch cable and the rear tie-downs. The boat went into the vehicle, killing the driver. He might have lived except for that. After that and reading this I'm thinking of putting a tie down from my bow eye or maybe the forward cleats back down to the trailer at a slight angle back (as Norton Rider suggested). For the price of a ratchet strap and another minute at setup/tear down it's probably worth it.

I will repeat - straps can only exert a force parallel to the strap. For both transom straps and bow straps, this is vertical (straight up/down). They cannot stop the boat from sliding forward until it has already slid forward a large amount, at which point the angle of the strap allows it to exert some of its force in the horizontal direction. But by the time the boat has slid forward that much, the strap has probably extended to the point where it's already snapped.

To stop the boat from sliding forward, the easiest method is some type of stop. The winch post is the most obvious one. Reinforce it against bending forward (and sideways) and you can make a post which is so strong the trailer frame itself will break before the post. The cleats are not strong enough. They're designed to hold the boat in place while it's slowly shifting against a dock. Their failure strength is in the thousands of pounds. An impact load like an accident can generate forces in the hundreds of thousands or millions of pounds.

F = ma = mv/t. The ratio of velocity versus time to decelerate is what matters. Deceleration over a short amount of time generates higher forces than over a longer period of time. That's why bungee jumping works - you're distributing the deceleration over many seconds, making the forces survivable. As opposed to if you hit the ground at full speed and decelerate in a few milliseconds and go splat. (This is also why impact forces can easily exceed the weight of the boat.)

To stop horizontal motion with straps, they need to be attached to the boat horizontally. You'd need some type of frame which sticks out back past the rear of the transom. Run the straps over that, then connect them to your boat so the straps are attached at an oblique angle instead of straight up. Ideally the frame would have some sort of spring or crush mechanism to distribute the impact loading over several tenths of a second instead of a few milliseconds, thus reducing the impact loading on the straps. The downside is that the transom straps will now be less capable of preventing the boat from bouncing up when you hit a bump on the road, but I suppose you can add a second set of straps going straight up for that purpose.

However, I'm not even sure if the transom eye hooks are even designed to withstand forces in the horizontal direction. The majority of their strength will be in the vertical direction since that's where the direction most of the transom material is in. The bow is a far better place to stop the boat's forward motion since it's literally been designed with that possibility in mind. For that reason, a bow tie-down with an extension spring or shock absorber is probably your best bet. The spring or shock absorber will spread the forces over time, keeping them (hopefully) below the strap's breaking strength. And their extension will allow the strap to lengthen, and thus engage when the strap is at an angle where some of the force it generates will be in the horizontal direction. A second choice would probably be the outdrive or outboard mount, since that area has been designed to withstand horizontal forces placed upon the hull by the propeller. But boats aren't exactly known for accelerating as quickly as they'd come to a stop in a car accident, so I'm still doubtful the transom is strong enough.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 31 Jul 2017 21:01 #24

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I posted this elsewhere but when my boat was t-boned a few weeks back - the impact tore the webbing on the bow strap, ripped out the safety cable and tore the rear tie down's loose. Broke my bunks too. All the attach points on the hull were intact and undamaged. I am impressed at the quality of the fiberglass hull on what is arguably a low end product.

Oddly enough the only significant damage to the hull of the boat was on the bottom and mostly from skidding across the ground. It's getting repaired right now. The trailer was stripped of anything useful and scrapped.

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BROKEN BUNKS AFTER HARD BRAKING 01 Aug 2017 02:00 #25

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Solandri wrote: I will repeat - straps can only exert a force parallel to the strap. For both transom straps and bow straps, this is vertical (straight up/down). They cannot stop the boat from sliding forward until it has already slid forward a large amount, at which point the angle of the strap allows it to exert some of its force in the horizontal direction. But by the time the boat has slid forward that much, the strap has probably extended to the point where it's already snapped.


The strap, chain, or cable that I suggested in my earlier post goes from the bow eye down and aft to the trailer. While not horizontal, it's angle is such that it will help keep the boat from moving forward. Moreover, it will keep the boat from climbing over the front roller.

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