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TOPIC: 2013 element, another with water where it shouldn't be

2013 element, another with water where it shouldn't be 28 Jul 2017 19:19 #176

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fishbayers wrote: I don't have a horse in this race and have been wrongly accused of trying to start a movement.


I truly don't have a horse in this race as I never considered an Element and have no opinion on them one way or the other, and secondly, don't have anything personally against you, but your statement above and the remainder of your post (and previous posts) in which you suggest Element owners take certain actions are illogical as they are essentially mutually exclusive. Either you don't have a horse in this race and thus should stop saying the same thing over and over, or you should admit you have the horse and like to flog it to excess. It matters not to me which you choose, but you can't legitimately have it both ways (unless you happen to be a politician, in which case, I'm sorry....you can have it both ways).

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2013 element, another with water where it shouldn't be 28 Jul 2017 19:43 #177

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TPerk274 wrote:

fishbayers wrote: I don't have a horse in this race and have been wrongly accused of trying to start a movement.


I truly don't have a horse in this race as I never considered an Element and have no opinion on them one way or the other, and secondly, don't have anything personally against you, but your statement above and the remainder of your post (and previous posts) in which you suggest Element owners take certain actions are illogical as they are essentially mutually exclusive. Either you don't have a horse in this race and thus should stop saying the same thing over and over, or you should admit you have the horse and like to flog it to excess. It matters not to me which you choose, but you can't legitimately have it both ways (unless you happen to be a politician, in which case, I'm sorry....you can have it both ways).


They aren't mutually exclusive at all. ??? I for one am THANKFUL to fishbayers and others who brought this up and didn't let it die. I was seriously considering an Element and will forever be grateful for making me aware of the problem. Not sure why you think bringing up something that has been known and covered up for years is somehow not worthy of repeating UNLESS "You have a horse". Makes no sense to me.
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2013 element, another with water where it shouldn't be 29 Jul 2017 03:18 #178

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Thank you. Someone gets it. I don't have a horse in this race means I don't own an Element and won't own one either. I did not buy an Element because I benefited from the sharing of information on this forum. I don't like seeing a corporation take advantage of its customers.
I know that when people buy a new boat, they often buy it to use with their families and friends. Nobody deserves to unknowingly buy a boat where the manufacturer knows there is a defect and does not address it properly.
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2013 element, another with water where it shouldn't be 03 Aug 2017 12:51 #179

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I no longer own my Element. After I discovered the massive amounts of water that collect in the sponsons I took it back to the dealer and upgraded to a new bigger boat. Cost me more, but well worth it knowing that I no longer will own a boat that drastically depreciates because of rotting wood in the hulls. Yes there is wood inside of them. Good luck and godspeed everyone. Ill never own another Bayliner.

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2013 element, another with water where it shouldn't be 03 Aug 2017 14:12 #180

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I don't question the decisions that folks have made to trade or sell their Elements, or to choose another boat. Sound decisions.

But, I have not heard of any Elements having rot issues, except for Pegasus-01 who's rot was caused by a negligent installation of a table mount. I think it's a poor design if drilling a hole in the deck can cause rot so quickly, but still all parties agree that the rot was caused by third party negligence.

I have not heard of anyone being deceived or screwed by Bayliner. Everyone that I know of that has had problems with water in sponsons have been told to bring it in for sponson drains to drain the water and caulking/resealing of certain parts of the boat. Bad design, yes, as far as I know the dealers and Bayliner is working with customers to resolve.

There is one owner on here who's dealer said that they can't seal the sponsons. That is of course a big problem. The owner will have to talk to Bayliner and see what the next steps are; it would seem that shipping back to factory for repair, or buyback, would be the only option. Very curious to see how that goes.

Anything I am missing here? Has anyone been told "tough luck" by Bayliner regarding water in the sponsons? Has anyone had any rot and/or denied warranty coverage as a result?

Asking prices for used Elements, at least in the mid-atlantic, seem in line with other used boats. No idea what they are actually selling for, though.

Not seeking disagreements....just seeking facts.....

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2013 element, another with water where it shouldn't be 03 Aug 2017 15:56 #181

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6104696 wrote: I don't question the decisions that folks have made to trade or sell their Elements, or to choose another boat. Sound decisions.

But, I have not heard of any Elements having rot issues, except for Pegasus-01 who's rot was caused by a negligent installation of a table mount. I think it's a poor design if drilling a hole in the deck can cause rot so quickly, but still all parties agree that the rot was caused by third party negligence.

I have not heard of anyone being deceived or screwed by Bayliner. Everyone that I know of that has had problems with water in sponsons have been told to bring it in for sponson drains to drain the water and caulking/resealing of certain parts of the boat. Bad design, yes, as far as I know the dealers and Bayliner is working with customers to resolve.

There is one owner on here who's dealer said that they can't seal the sponsons. That is of course a big problem. The owner will have to talk to Bayliner and see what the next steps are; it would seem that shipping back to factory for repair, or buyback, would be the only option. Very curious to see how that goes.

Anything I am missing here? Has anyone been told "tough luck" by Bayliner regarding water in the sponsons? Has anyone had any rot and/or denied warranty coverage as a result?

Asking prices for used Elements, at least in the mid-atlantic, seem in line with other used boats. No idea what they are actually selling for, though.

Not seeking disagreements....just seeking facts.....


I don't think that anyone that has approached their dealer or Bayliner has had issues getting drains. But I don't think that his the issue that some are pushing for. I feel the issue is with Bayliner not issuing recall on all Elements to have drains installed and chalk the items that need to be sealed. If an element owner does not follow this site or drill into the transom will not not that water is collecting and at some point will have issues.
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2013 element, another with water where it shouldn't be 04 Aug 2017 01:43 #182

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I don't think that Bayliner has worked with owners at all to resolve the issue of water in the sponsons, because I don't think that installing drains is a solution at all. Once water is in that area I think it may never dry. I would think it would rot just like the center hull, eventually, since it gets stuck in the foam,etc.
I don't own an Element but when I was considering one last summer I had my dealer contact Bayliner and they said they fixed the issue but would not provide much detail. Since they would not provide detail and I could not gain confidence through this forum that the issue was addressed, I did not buy an Element. To my knowledge, even the new Elements have this issue. So, I would say I feel deceived since I was told it was fixed.
I would imagine there are a bunch of owners that are not satisfied with drains as a solution. Just my thoughts.

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2013 element, another with water where it shouldn't be 04 Aug 2017 02:29 #183

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Yea...Adding 2 additional drains to the sponsons hardly resolves the problem. If the sponsons were meant to drain...They would have had drains installed when built. Seems pretty obvious to me that adding drains is just a cheap way to placate people who have found a problem and then hope they go away.
And then there is the vast majority of people who have bought them and don't have a clue that there is even an issue. And the many more that continue to buy them today without doing their homework.

And it is POSSIBLE that they have changed their design and/or constructing methods and solved the problem. But without full disclosure and admitting the problem and then how they fixed it going forward...They've lost trust and put a bad stain on their brand and reputation.

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2013 element, another with water where it shouldn't be 04 Aug 2017 17:52 #184

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Their reputation will be put to the test if/when warranty claims start being made. The Elements come with a lifetime warranty on the hull. If Bayliner stands behind it, their reputation will be fine. If they try and duck away from it if/when those claims come in, then their reputation takes a hit.

I'm willing to wait and see and enjoy my Element. I'm not regretting my decision.

bayliner.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/...Sure-Warranty-NA.pdf
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2013 element, another with water where it shouldn't be 05 Aug 2017 12:17 #185

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I spoke to Bayliner support yesterday and it seems that they are hell-bent at fixing the issue under warranty rather than replacing the hull. He told me he cannot authorize a hull replacement but is determined to find a solution to why the sponsons are still leaking. The reason they installed the plugs was to release any water that does accumulate there. I told him that is not acceptable since I keep the boat in the water sometimes for 5 days or more. He kept reminding me that the hull has a lifetime warranty and not worry about rot. I'm not sure what to do anymore but I am going to run my own test with a water hose and see where it may be leaking from. So in the end Bayliner support with not authorize a new hull and just wants to keep trying to fix the issue.

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2013 element, another with water where it shouldn't be 05 Aug 2017 13:32 #186

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I think I would ask Bayliner support how water in the wood, foam, etc. will dry, even with their "solution" of sealing where the water is entering and installing drains. This will add weight and decrease performance. If performance suffers, I would think that needs to be addressed under warranty, however I recall it reads something about the warranty will cover the hull if it is not seaworthy, so there could easily be room for interpretation for them on that. To me, I don't understand how that water will not soak in and stay there. Also, Bayliner does not really seem to know exactly where the water is coming in. If they do, why has there not been a recall to seal those areas on all Elements sold?
Bayliner seems to be hiding behind this lifetime hull warranty, which is only helpful if the issue does not affect performance in the interim and is actually fully honored later down the road.

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2013 element, another with water where it shouldn't be 05 Aug 2017 17:18 #187

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Hey Buffalo,

What did you upgrade to, if you don't mind my asking?

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2013 element, another with water where it shouldn't be 07 Aug 2017 22:09 #188

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Well a few of you probably saw my thread on the accident my 2015 element XL was involved in. In case you didn't it's in a thread on this board. Short version is that the boat was hit while being towed and left the trailer and skidded across the road doing a fair amount of damage to the underside.

Well guess what.....dang thing was full of water in the sponsons. Shop said he drained "at least 40 pounds from the port side so far. He's going to try to dry it out and install drains.

Boat has 2.25 seasons on it so far. Oh and the inside is power washed regularly - what a fool I was to think the water coming out the bilge and the drain was "all of it".

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2013 element, another with water where it shouldn't be 07 Aug 2017 22:15 #189

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I'm thinking it's not possible that they have "fixed" the problem. Think about it, all they can do to fix it is to try to ensure water cannot get into those areas. Water being water, it's going to get there eventually. Especially given that there are seams and sealed areas which will leak over time. Trouble is, the water has no place to go once it gets there. On a normal v shaped hull it would run to the low spot and drain out. These boats have two extra low spots without the benefit of a drain. I can't imagine how this wasn't seen during the design of the boat as I'd think water extraction would be on some kind of check list.

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2013 element, another with water where it shouldn't be 07 Aug 2017 23:27 #190

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seadoorider wrote: Well a few of you probably saw my thread on the accident my 2015 element XL was involved in. In case you didn't it's in a thread on this board. Short version is that the boat was hit while being towed and left the trailer and skidded across the road doing a fair amount of damage to the underside.

Well guess what.....dang thing was full of water in the sponsons. Shop said he drained "at least 40 pounds from the port side so far. He's going to try to dry it out and install drains.

Boat has 2.25 seasons on it so far. Oh and the inside is power washed regularly - what a fool I was to think the water coming out the bilge and the drain was "all of it".



Ughhhh...More proof the "M" hull is completely defective.

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Eric
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